Well, allow me to ask the first question and maybe this post could become a "How To/Tutorial" for those of us that just don't "get it."

I've seen some finishes on automotive models that are brilliant! They seem to have that custom show-quality finish. I mean, let the sun shine on them and you need sunglasses! The depth and shine are amazing for something so small!

So, take a basic kit's body...

Do you prime the plastic? With what?

Are enamal paints better than acrylic paints? Preferred brands?

How many coats of "base" paint do you lay down? Is there a "rule of thumb" for this? Do you sand/polish the final coat or do you do that to each coat?

Once the color is down, what do you use for the gloss? Again, preferred brands? And, again, sanding/polishing?

What "system" or product do you use to get that uber-shine? Brand?

This is all brought about because I've been building a Dodge Deora for the Pimp a Ride campaign. The main body colors are both gloss (blue) acrylics and flat (gray) enamels. I used an acrylic gloss clear...and it really didn't get "glossy." The solution was then to shoot the body with future. That really added some shine...just not as shiney as I've seen on some of the other builds.

Yeah, these are "noob" questions, but, hey....I'm a noob to the "shine factor."

Mike

Biggest thing is, and I am no expert at this, but no matter if you are laying down a lacquer, enamel or acrylic gloss coat, if you took a cross section of the paint and gloss, and enlarged it, you would see what looks like peaks and valleys. When light hits these peaks and valleys it refracts the light away in all directions, thus making it look dull, think of it as the special Stealth coating on a B2 bomber, it disperses the radar waves in all directions so the sending unit doesn't receive a return.

This is where the polishing kits come in. Most kits are either a paper base or pad base, and start at either 2000 or 3200 grit and work their way up to 12000 grit.....yeah, 12000 grit, looks and feels like soft leather!

You basically wet sand using the ever increasing grits the peaks away until they are even with the valleys, thus giving a mirror like shine, and the light then reflects right back at you, like looking in a mirror, and now instead of a stealthy B2 bomber, you have a B-52 that has a radar return the size of a 2 storey house with attached garage!!

Final thing is a coat of Carnuba wax to protect the paint.

This really is one of those topics where what works for one person doesn't work for others. So you could get a lot of very different replies! There's a lot of people that can't get the hang of the way i do gloss finishes and they use methods that don't work at all for me...

This is a subject close to my heart because when i came back to modelling (7 years ago) i was still interested in Formula 1 and decided i was going to do a time line of Tamiya F1 cars. But i wasn't getting quite the finish i was after. So i embarked upon a 3 year and 30 mdel experimental campaign using different types of paints and finishing methods. I finally got one that works every time with little effort for me...rarely even needing the use of polishing cloths- or least only the 2 finest grades when i do.

And it starts with the primer. More important than i would ever have thought! I always use laquer spray because it really grips the plastic and resists everything you're going to abuse it with later. Lots of people use automotive primers, but i prefer to pay the extra for Tamiya Fine spray can primer. Use the fine version and not the regular. It is usually white, but you can get it grey as well. I usually use white for light coloured finishes anyway. The fine Tamiya stuff is good because it doesn't soak the gloss out of your first gloss coat. I find if i use an automotive primer (which is thicker) then i need an extra gloss coat or two - and the thickness all adds up.

I've tried enamels, alcohol based acrylics, water based acrylics, acrylic laquers and 2 part polyurethane automotive paints. Enamels just didn't work for me in any way. The main problem being they don't poilish well. They always stay slightly soft. Well maybe if you wait 6 months they won't, but i don't want to wait that long! Water based acrlics (like pollyscale Xtracrylic) fared little better than enamels for me, but i've never really gotten on with these paints anyway. Alcohol acrylics (the Japanese ones in other words- Tamiya/Gunze) i can make these work okay, they do set hard enough to polish but it takes a week to be safe.
The 2 part polyurethane works well and has the advantage of being safe to apply over decals and sets rock hard. I gave it up because it was more time consuming and the fumes are vial and hazardous, and it's expensive. Nasty stuff, but it works especially the clear top coats.
Acrylic Laquers are what i now always use. I tried automotive sprays like Halfords. They work, but Tamiya TS sprays work better for because they are so much thinner and settle smoother and flatter than any paint i've ever used- when you apply it right! They sound an expensive option, but really they aren't- especially if you decant and use them through the airbrush.

So i use Tamiya TS sprays. First a primer coat. I then usually use 3 colour coats to achieve the finish i want. The trick being with these paints, put it on very lightly or else they run, especially the first coat. The first coat won't be high gloss because the primer soaks it up. It's more of a sealing coat. And the important part is this: leave at least one day between the coats. If you come back an hour later and apply the second coat it just reactivates the first one and that's when you start getting surface uneveness and you'll have lots of sanding work to do later.
If you wait a day and put on a second light coat, it doesn't reactivate the one below and the shine stacks up. The final coat is a bit wetter, but don't over do it still. What this always ends up with for me at this stage is a very smooth even gloss surface. Usually it needs no polishing with micromesh, unless things like complicated air intake shapes have caused buildups of overpray for example. In which case some sanding will be used.
The next stage, if it is used at all depends upon if decals are being used. If not then i go to the polishing stage (i do polish just not using sanding cloths like micromesh). If decals are used then a clear top coat usually goes over to even the finish. Again i use Tamiya TS13 because it works for me. It's starting to sound like a Tamiya advert. BUT laquer clear coats have a serious problem to be aware of. They do attack some decals. They attack some decals really badly. But most work if you apply a mist coat first and wait a day for a heavier top coat. Most. Some decals just won't have anything to do wioth laquer. Never use laquer over those really glossy Tamiya declas from the 90's for a start, they melt. Most newer decals work ok i find, especially cartograph- very durable. The moral is try a decal that doesn't matter on an old kit first. I guess you could use future for this top coat. But i don't like the gloss it gives. It looks more like a "Hotwheels" car. Toy like, not at all like a scale gloss finish- no depth. Just my preference.
One final thing, don't spray in your cold damp basement and then bring the model into a warm room to set. This seems to play havoc with most gloss paints, but especially laquers. They go cloudy if you go from cold to warm while they set. Warm is always better, but in my experience it's changing temperature (and maybe humidity) that really does the damage. Luckily it's mostly warm and dry most of the year where i am.

So by this time i have a nice even shiny finish. So good that it rarely needs sanding. But i do polish and wax. For this i used to use auto canauba (or however it's spelt) waxes. But now i use Tamiya (them again) polishing compounds which comes in three grades. The coarser 2 level out very minor unevenness (only very minor- you have to sand for bigger stuff), the final finishing compound gives an amazing shine that reflects your ugly face back at you, making me sometimes wish i didn't do it.

And that's my method. I've practiced to the point that i can turn out F1 cars in 6 days and be perfectly happy with the result. Unfortuntately others i've explained the method to don't have equal success. So again, what works for one doesn't work for another. The trick is getting the hang of Tamiya TS sprays. They are thin and come flooding out of the tins, but that's also why they can work so well with practice.

Hope all that ramble may help someone.

Andrew

Tamiya Fine Surface Primer gets my vote as well. For years I used Duplicolor automotive primer (grey or red, depending on the final paint job), shot from the can into my airbrush jar, thinned a wee bit, and then sprayed on the model in multiple coats. I would go over the entire primer job with 1500 grit sandpaper, used wet, to even things out before shooting on the color. The sanding was a tedious but necessary step to get a nice smooth base.

One day, on a lark, I picked up some Tamiya FS Primer at the LHS. I used it on a recent project and was impressed with the resulting finish; very even, very smooth and ready for color without much else to do. Much like Andrew, I've found that the Tamiya primer doesn't "suck up" that first color coat like the Duplicolor primer would, and the white base of the Tammy primer makes bright colors really pop. At $8 per can at the LHS, the stuff isn't cheap, but it's worth it for me, especially since it eliminates another airbrush cleaning session.

As for the paint, I'm a little old school. I still use Testors enamels, thinned and sprayed through my airbrush, and yes...you have to wait about 6 months for the paint to completely dry before you polish it! I've used a host of other things for color coats, including Duplicolor automotive paint, different lacquers and even nail polish, but I always fall back on the tried-and-true Testors enamels. I don't always use a topcoat, but if I do, it's Testors Glosscote (again, from the can to the airbrush jar to the model).

For polishing, I use Detail Masters' "Micro-Mesh" polishing system, which I've had for years. I think they still carry it in their catalogue.

And let's not forget the carnauba wax.

-YL

Thanks guys for the information! Verrrrrry helpful!!

Another quick question: Carnuba wax? Paste or "liquid" form?

Mike

I have a small jar of carnauba wax which I bought years ago, and I still have some of it left. It's not a hard paste, but a rather soft one, almost like toothpaste. I don't know if carnauba wax comes in other forms; I haven't seen anything other than the soft paste.

It does work well, though. Very easy to apply, and not a lot of buffing to remove it.

HTH.

-YL

Off course, one thing you can do aswell to get a slightly different color is to experiment with different color coats.. for instance, a coat of Bright Red (TS49) as a first coat seriously enhances colors like Italian Red (TS8), Metallic Red (TS18) or Mica Red (TS39).

You can do a similar trick with the blue shades aswell.

The coat of primer just have to be perfect. I made the mistake of thinking I could cover a few flaws in the primer when appliyng the body color, but i couldn't. Even though they are small flaws, I would have to apply a really heavy coat to cover them. A good smooth coat of primer is vital. Inspect the coat of primer and sand out any blemishes, however small.

There is actually a product out there called "The Treatment - Model Wax - The Final Detail".

Comes in a 1oz bottle, and is basically carnuba wax for your model cars, a jar will run you about $3-$4, but will last you a long time as a little goes a long ways.

That little jar I have is actually The Treatment wax, and it's lasted quite a long time. The only problem is finding it. Detail Master shows it in their online catalogue, but it's always "Out of Stock".

I'm assuming that any brand of carnauba wax would work just as well. A friend of mine swears by Meguire's No.7 (Show Car Glaze) for both his models and real cars. I've never used it, though.

-YL

Man, this is some great info guys. I've used just plain Future up till now. I've even been able to polish it slightly but have had problems of actually "burning" through the Future at times.
One question: How the heck to you keep the little fuzy things that float through the air from landing on your finished paint job? I'm extremly clean in my model room and use a plastic tupperware cake cover over my models as soon as I'm done painting. However, it never fails when I go back in a day or two to take a look there is always a tiny piece of lint etc. somewhere in the paint. Any suggestions?

Hermon

Build yourself a spray booth with extractor.

I've seen and heard alot of different techniques over the years, all of which are somewhat individualized to a person's preferences. After having spent some time with a professional painter who also built scale vehicles with a phenomenol finish, this is what it boils down to:

1. Surface Prep. The underlying surface must be clean of any oils including release agents from molds or your hands. Also any dust/debris from removing seams, sanding, whatever. I prefer a mild dish detergent that does NOT contain anything that conditions your hands. Basic Dawn dishwashing liquid or equivalent is best. Rinse well, do not allow water spots to remain as they can screw with enamels, laquers and acrylics. Poor surface prep tends to show up as fisheyes or areas that the paint doesn't adhere to. Also, plastics tend to get a static charge and will attract airborne particles before and during paint. Clean air is a must as is good handling of the cleaned parts.
2. Surface finish. The smoother and more even the base finish under the paint, the smoother the paint might lay. Sanding marks don't disappear under thicker layers of paint, unless you plan on a ridiculously thick paint job that will hide EVERY detail. A sandable primer will help fill in areas provided you sand it. Some primers are very coarse as applied and should be sanded smooth. Many primers for models have a finer pigment and apply a thinner layer, but also hide less. Primers are not necessary and can often be counter productive. The only exception to a primer is that you must have a good primer barrier when applying lacquers. There are brave souls who spray lacquer on polystryrene without a primer, but one overly thick coat and you have issues.
3. Spraying technique. This depends on the paint you've selected, but my rule of thumb is to apply a mist coat, not attempting to cover everything but get a very light layer over the whole model. It looks a bit rough, but will come through in the end. Once that layer has "skinned" over (dry to the touch but not throughout) apply a slightly heavier coat to fill-in the first coat, but don't attempt to get the paint smooth yet. Allow this coat to skin over again. Once it has skinned come back with the third and hopefully final wet coat. This time build up another layer of paint evenly and continue to paint the entire surface until the finish flashes "smooth". Then stop no matter what. Anymore and you have runs. If another coat is needed, allow the paint to try the full thickness (several hours or days depending on the paint), then sand with a very fine sandpaper. This will help the first coat provide "bite" for the second coat. With practive only the first coat will be necessary as additional coats can loose details molded into the body. Don't forget good clean surface prep. Paint consistency varies, but I personally start with something the consistency of whole milk and tend to thin a little more for finish coats. Most model paints out of the jar are really way too thick. If you use thin coats and slowly build up the layers you won't have problems with runs. Paint that is too thick won't flow over the surface and level out. Thus you get orange peel, a slight series of high and low spots in an otherwise smooth paint job.
4. Clear coat. Not always necessary, but helpful for multicolor paints and to add more depth. If I plan to finish sand a metallic paint I always use clear coat or you'll cut through the paint to the metallics producing an uneven finish. Paint clear coat the same as the paint slowly building up Though it might even out a finish, don't think for a minute it will really hide poor prep. I've seen clear coats beautifully done over paint that still has sand marks visible.
5. Polishing. I prefer to let a paint job dry a very generous amount of time before hand rubbing the finish. You'll need VERY fine polishing cloths which are available in several polishing kits. I start with about a 3600 grit, unless I have a major boo-boo to fix, then slowly work up to 12000 grit. Each grit must be able to sand away the marks from the previous grit getting successively smoother and more even in the process. It is VERY easy to polish through the paint, especially on some cards with lots of edges or raised areas. My advice is to use coarse grits sparingly and spend more time getting the paint applied as smooth as possible in the first place. Polishing kits are the icing on the cake.
6. Final finish. If you use a polishing kit, you'll probably need to use a polishing compound to smooth out the minute scratches from the final grit of sandpaper. Polishing kits comes with some, but auto parts store rubbing compounds work just as well. Don't use an agressive polishing compound like the type intended to restore an bad finish, but a finer compound. I'm a big Meguiar person myself and generally use a #2 for heavier marks, but try to stay with a #3 and polish out spiderweb scratches.(I'll have to check and make sure I don't have those backwards, but you get the idea). I then use a car wax (carnuba wax) to protect the paint from further scratches and give it a smooth ultraglossy look. Again, the "Model Treatment" is simply a very expensive repackaging of everyday Carnuba Wax. Jut be wary of any carnuba wax that "restores" a surface finish as this will also tend to have polishing agents in it. Any liquid or paste polishing compound is a fine abrasive and has the potential to sand through the paint just like sand paper. Use them sparingly.

Basically smooth paint jobs come from Good Prep, Good Process, Practice and Patience. And yes, I have ruined too many paint jobs growing a tad bit impatient and trying to get a touch more paint on when I didn't think it was smooth enough or trying to shortcut a step. And polishing should not be mistaken as a means to fix a bad paint job. It will help fix minor finish problems, but can't make up fore carelessly applied paint or primer. I know, I've tried. All this means I also have a great deal of experience stripping off a bad paint job as well so that I could start all over.

How did you polish your future?? I've been trying to figure this out but im stuck ...