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Cars: Muscle Cars
60's & 70's Classics
AMT new tool Chrysler 300C (commissioned)
Scarred
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Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 - 05:31 AM UTC
I am seriously diggin' that chassis!
Szmann
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Netherlands Antilles
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Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 - 02:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Love how your chassis turned out with the variation in semi gloss black. That truly looks so realistic. As for the issues of the front pipe to the exhaust manifold, then to the "can", and the rear pipe being a real bear trying to weave it up and over the rear axel, and finally getting everything aligned corrected without all those little extra twists, you did an excellent job of it. I can personally attest to just how realistic that is. I've done it (with a friend or two) on my back, and on a lift. A classic case for side pipes.

Joel



Joel, If you have noticed the different shades of "black", it means my work wasn't for nothing and thank you very much for "authentication" certificate on piping!
I cannot agree more! AMT have done a superb job on this one; let's not forget the engine which is as true to the original as it can be (except some minor details). I'll trade any time some minor fitting issues as these encountered here with the level of detail presented. Way to go AMT!

Gabriel
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Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 - 02:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I recently tried to hand paint some exhaust with Vallejo silver and it was a disaster.

Can you provide some more detail on how you got those pipes looking so good? What paint you used etc?



Sure, Charlie, and glad to help!
This time was more of a trial and error and I gave some references in the blog, but I'm going to present the steps here, organized and simplified:
1. Krylon gloss black (any good enamel or lacquer will do), ;
2. Krylon silver 70% + Krylon gloss black 30%, heavily thinned (50% and above) (again, any fine enamel will do) right after the gloss black. I wasn't happy with the shine and the "aluminum feel" of the coat at this point;
3. Krylon gold 30% + Krylon silver 30% + Krylon gloss black 40%; now I was happy with the muffler cans, but not with the pipes. I masked the cans;
4. Testors silver 50% + Testors flat black 40% + Krylon gold10%

Notes
1. All proportions are approximate - the mixes were done "by the eye" but should be close enough.
2. Steps 3 and 4 were applied patchy, leaving small areas from the previous coat to shine thru, for achieving an inconsistent look to simulate very light exposure to heat.

I hope this helps!

Cheers!
Gabriel

Szmann
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Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 - 02:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I am seriously diggin' that chassis!



Thanks, Patrick!
I must say is the coolest one I've ever done in this scale, and the second one as complexity ever, after ICM Mercedes G4 in 35th scale. Yup, is a keeper!

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 - 02:53 PM UTC
Small update - Riddle for Joel

I have spayed the entire chassis and its sub-assemblies with Micro Gloss acrylic; no noticeable change to the general look - I just need to seal the metallic paints and to give an undercoat for the following oil wash. I have avoided to spray the engine, since that one had received already its washes.

And now the riddle:
The two of us (me and Joel) we have a particular preference for a particular black shade.
I have painted the bottom pan with "something". Let's see if he can guess the shade and the producer:


Cheers!
Gabriel
AussieReg
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Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 - 06:04 PM UTC
Looks like "Vader Black" by Empire Paints
Scarred
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Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 - 09:06 PM UTC
FYI The undersides of cars are often painted body color, left in primer or a mix of the two. They only time they would black is if undercoated, usually done at the dealer and is a major ripoff. The wheel wells could be body color because they can be seen around the tire. I just went out to look at my truck and they painted the bed wheel wells the body color only where they could be seen from the side. Up higher into the well and it's primer. Fuel tanks were unpainted but sometimes were given the "undercoating" at the dealer.

Like you I painted my the undersides black.
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 12:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Looks like "Vader Black" by Empire Paints



D., your guess went so close! Now let's see what Joel will say...

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 12:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

FYI The undersides of cars are often painted body color, left in primer or a mix of the two. They only time they would black is if undercoated, usually done at the dealer and is a major ripoff. The wheel wells could be body color because they can be seen around the tire. I just went out to look at my truck and they painted the bed wheel wells the body color only where they could be seen from the side. Up higher into the well and it's primer. Fuel tanks were unpainted but sometimes were given the "undercoating" at the dealer.

Like you I painted my the undersides black.



Patrick, thank you!
My choice would have been body color if the owner would'n chose differently! There is a whole conversation earlier in the blog, in the Cheating on my employer update. To be honest, my preference wasn't based on solid knowledge, but on aesthetics. I was afraid I will lose all tat frame detail because black on black scheme!
Thank you for your intervention - it scores a decisive point for my next Chrysler 300B by Moebius which I own.

Thanks again!
Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 02:09 AM UTC
Small Update - How much black is black enough?

My little tricks paid off eventually. Both frame and chassis are "black", but you can tell one of each other and that was the purpose. Good!

Mindful of what Charlie said about gas tanks I was thinking to alchemise another metallic potion for it, but I wanted first to do the mock up, to see what the visual impact will be (pictured here):



After a second thought, I'm going to gloss coat the bottom as well (regardless of my choice of color for the tank). complete the assembly, and only then apply a general wash.

Now, how do you feel about it? Should I paint the tank some metallic, enjoying the wellness of masking in the process (no more Kamoi, just pure bliss), or leave it black and pick up the braces only? Is there enough bare metal or it is already too much?

Cheers!
Gabriel
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 02:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Small update - Riddle for Joel

I have spayed the entire chassis and its sub-assemblies with Micro Gloss acrylic; no noticeable change to the general look - I just need to seal the metallic paints and to give an undercoat for the following oil wash. I have avoided to spray the engine, since that one had received already its washes.

And now the riddle:
The two of us (me and Joel) we have a particular preference for a particular black shade.
I have painted the bottom pan with "something". Let's see if he can guess the shade and the producer:


Cheers!
Gabriel



Gabriel,
My go to scale black: Tamiya Nato Black XF-69. Sure wish that Mig would make that exact shade. Tamiya Dark German Gray XF-63 does come close, but not quite there as it's a shade or two too light IMHO.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 02:58 AM UTC
Gabriel,
Patrick is correct that the overall black color was usually undercoating, and that was something that was almost always purchased by the buyer from the dealer back in the 1960's if you lived in any part of the USA that had snow and ice issues, as the salt used just ate the steel body work at an alarming rate. Today's cars really don't need the additional undercoating that the dealer tries to sell with astronomical markups. Almost as useless has having them etch the VIN # into your windshield.

I really like the two tone Black effect you've achieved which adds interest to the viewer.

Joel
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 03:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I recently tried to hand paint some exhaust with Vallejo silver and it was a disaster.

Can you provide some more detail on how you got those pipes looking so good? What paint you used etc?



Sure, Charlie, and glad to help!
This time was more of a trial and error and I gave some references in the blog, but I'm going to present the steps here, organized and simplified:
1. Krylon gloss black (any good enamel or lacquer will do), ;
2. Krylon silver 70% + Krylon gloss black 30%, heavily thinned (50% and above) (again, any fine enamel will do) right after the gloss black. I wasn't happy with the shine and the "aluminum feel" of the coat at this point;
3. Krylon gold 30% + Krylon silver 30% + Krylon gloss black 40%; now I was happy with the muffler cans, but not with the pipes. I masked the cans;
4. Testors silver 50% + Testors flat black 40% + Krylon gold10%

Notes
1. All proportions are approximate - the mixes were done "by the eye" but should be close enough.
2. Steps 3 and 4 were applied patchy, leaving small areas from the previous coat to shine thru, for achieving an inconsistent look to simulate very light exposure to heat.

I hope this helps!

Cheers!
Gabriel




Oh man Gabriel,

Sounds like I need some Krylon! They look amazing and may need to take a trip to the Wal-Mart to get a can or two!

How do these Krylons take to gloss coats? Is it best to stay in the Krylon family or can I use Dullocte and such.
Scarred
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 05:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I recently tried to hand paint some exhaust with Vallejo silver and it was a disaster.

Can you provide some more detail on how you got those pipes looking so good? What paint you used etc?



Sure, Charlie, and glad to help!
This time was more of a trial and error and I gave some references in the blog, but I'm going to present the steps here, organized and simplified:
1. Krylon gloss black (any good enamel or lacquer will do), ;
2. Krylon silver 70% + Krylon gloss black 30%, heavily thinned (50% and above) (again, any fine enamel will do) right after the gloss black. I wasn't happy with the shine and the "aluminum feel" of the coat at this point;
3. Krylon gold 30% + Krylon silver 30% + Krylon gloss black 40%; now I was happy with the muffler cans, but not with the pipes. I masked the cans;
4. Testors silver 50% + Testors flat black 40% + Krylon gold10%

Notes
1. All proportions are approximate - the mixes were done "by the eye" but should be close enough.
2. Steps 3 and 4 were applied patchy, leaving small areas from the previous coat to shine thru, for achieving an inconsistent look to simulate very light exposure to heat.

I hope this helps!

Cheers!
Gabriel




Oh man Gabriel,

Sounds like I need some Krylon! They look amazing and may need to take a trip to the Wal-Mart to get a can or two!

How do these Krylons take to gloss coats? Is it best to stay in the Krylon family or can I use Dullocte and such.



Was getting ready to ask that too. Thanks.
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 04:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Gabriel,
My go to scale black: Tamiya Nato Black XF-69. Sure wish that Mig would make that exact shade. Tamiya Dark German Gray XF-63 does come close, but not quite there as it's a shade or two too light IMHO.

Joel



Joel, Damian's guess was closer than yours regarding the manufacturer. With the shade you were spot on. It is homemade Nato Black. "Pure black" + chrome yellow in this case. Just add drop by drop yellow to the black. First the black will lighten a bit; a couple more drops will make it steer towards green. You should stop there before your color turns to dark olive drab or Schwartzrun. Easy!

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 04:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Oh man Gabriel,

Sounds like I need some Krylon! They look amazing and may need to take a trip to the Wal-Mart to get a can or two!

How do these Krylons take to gloss coats? Is it best to stay in the Krylon family or can I use Dullocte and such.



Charlie an Patrick: I am sorry I wasn't more specific, although this confusion occurred before in other conversations: when I wrote Krylon I meant "old fashion" small bottles, not cans. Krylon has a series of bottled paints called Krylon Short Cuts Hobby Enamel. Although marketed as enamels, my suspicion is that they are in fact lacquers - at least the metallic ones. The "solid colors" are very similar with Testors, maybe a dash finer.

On clear coat question:
Depends what you are after: if I want to dull a little the shine - like on the engine and sub-frame parts, then I will use any acrylic coat, but not Future or Pledge Floor Protect. My usual is Alclad Aqua Gloss or, as in this case, Micro Gloss, the last one diluted slightly with one-two drops of IPA per airbrush cup (5 ml size).
If I want a very gloss "chrome" look, I use polyurethane or 2K. The first one comes with an yellowish tinge which can be used also as subtle "heat" effect.

Here you can see the difference: both the exhaust pipe and its shield were painted with Alclad Polished Aluminum but the pipe was clear coated with polyurethane, while the shield was sprayed with Aqua Gloss:


Cheers!
Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 05:21 PM UTC
UPDATE - Shoes on!

First back to the body. The paint was dry enough for wet sanding and I went first with 2000 Tamiya sanding sponge, followed by 3000 grit. I guess the result is slightly better than the first time, or is just wishful thinking?


Next step was to add the wheels. Well, AMT won't be AMT without goofing around. The plastic rings of the assembly don't really match and need to be glued on - not that I like the rotatable wheels. I ended up gluing everything, except the wheels to the axles. I'm not sure yet if I'm gonna add any wash to the chromed hubs - maybe a very light grey wash:


... and I guess this concludes the assembly and painting of the running train. Let's see some pics:








I'm not quite sure yet what color the inside of the bottom pan will be, but I'm leaning towards another "black" or maybe a very dark brown...

Cheers1
Gabriel
Stickframe
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 05:25 PM UTC
Wow Gabriel!

Not only are you moving fast, but this is looking great! Your tonal variation in color is really paying off! The body seems to be back too - looking good!

Very nice indeed!
Cheers
Nick
AussieReg
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 10:15 PM UTC
Great recovery on the body work Gabriel, and the running gear came up really well. Lots of detail and variation to look at.

Cheers, D
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2019 - 02:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Gabriel,
My go to scale black: Tamiya Nato Black XF-69. Sure wish that Mig would make that exact shade. Tamiya Dark German Gray XF-63 does come close, but not quite there as it's a shade or two too light IMHO.

Joel



Joel, Damian's guess was closer than yours regarding the manufacturer. With the shade you were spot on. It is homemade Nato Black. "Pure black" + chrome yellow in this case. Just add drop by drop yellow to the black. First the black will lighten a bit; a couple more drops will make it steer towards green. You should stop there before your color turns to dark olive drab or Schwartzrun. Easy!

Gabriel



Gabriel,
I keep on forgetting to try you mix. Just might buy a brand new bottle of XF-1 and mix up a batch.
Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2019 - 02:57 AM UTC
Gabriel,
The completed rolling chassis looks great. I certainly vote for a recessed panel line wash for those chrome hub caps. Just not so sure that gray will even show up. I can attest to the fact that Tamiya's Gray panel line wash is a complete waste of time, as once it's dry, you can't see it period.

I've gone in the complete opposite direction of you with clears these days. I had a bin filled with a good dozen of them. Today, all I use for air brushing is Mr. Hobby/Mr. Color Super Clear thinned with their #400 thinner/leveler. For hand brushing super small and tight areas like instrument gauge lenses, I use Tamiya X-22 or even Pledge if I run out of X-22. My original bottle of Pledge will out last me for sure.

As for the body shell, the color coat looks perfect. My method depends on if there is Orange Peel or just a slightly pebbly look and feel to the surface. Depending on the degree of Orange Peel it's either Tamiya Sponge 1,500/2,000/3.000 wet, and I let the sponge do the work. if it's just a sandy feel, I go only with #3,000 wet sponge. There should be no shine when your done, and the entire surface super smooth. From your pictures, as I said, it looks perfect.

Joel
Szmann
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Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2019 - 06:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Wow Gabriel!

Not only are you moving fast, but this is looking great! Your tonal variation in color is really paying off! The body seems to be back too - looking good!

Very nice indeed!
Cheers
Nick



Thanks, Nick

Well, not as fast as I'll like to, but there is some progress to report indeed.
Yes, on second attempt I've managed a slightly better base coat.

Thank you kind Sir for taking the time and letting a positive comment!

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2019 - 06:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Great recovery on the body work Gabriel, and the running gear came up really well. Lots of detail and variation to look at.

Cheers, D



Thanks, D.!
And I added yet more variations, using the detail on the bottom pan.
I'm getting a hint here that two coats of enamel are taking much better sanding than a single one - it just felt much "healthy" under the sponge.

Cheers!
Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2019 - 06:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
The completed rolling chassis looks great. I certainly vote for a recessed panel line wash for those chrome hub caps. Just not so sure that gray will even show up. I can attest to the fact that Tamiya's Gray panel line wash is a complete waste of time, as once it's dry, you can't see it period.


Joel, I don't even own Tamiya panel liner Grey. I was suggesting there a home made wash made from artist's oil (Paynes'g Gray). Tamiya panel liner was somewhat disappointing for me too (black and brown) - I'm still using it but sparingly.


Quoted Text


I've gone in the complete opposite direction of you with clears these days. I had a bin filled with a good dozen of them. Today, all I use for air brushing is Mr. Hobby/Mr. Color Super Clear thinned with their #400 thinner/leveler. For hand brushing super small and tight areas like instrument gauge lenses, I use Tamiya X-22 or even Pledge if I run out of X-22. My original bottle of Pledge will out last me for sure.


I've heard good things about Gunze lacquer, but I never used it myself. Since I have discovered 2K nothing else works for me as final shell coat. Same like you, Alclad, X-22, and Micro Gloss are old stocks and I use them for odd jobs. Probably I'm going to use only Alclad Aqua Gloss from now on to seal the enamels and lacquers before washes. As for Pledge Floor Polish was retrograded to ingredient for washes and deep bath for clear parts.


Quoted Text


As for the body shell, the color coat looks perfect. My method depends on if there is Orange Peel or just a slightly pebbly look and feel to the surface. Depending on the degree of Orange Peel it's either Tamiya Sponge 1,500/2,000/3.000 wet, and I let the sponge do the work. if it's just a sandy feel, I go only with #3,000 wet sponge. There should be no shine when your done, and the entire surface super smooth. From your pictures, as I said, it looks perfect.




On this chapter we pretty much share the method. Yes, sometimes if is only a little dried over-spray I use the back of the sanding sponge, wet, or just a cotton cloth on Alclad family, dry. If, as you say, I let the sponge do the job, working it only on "water lock", I see no need for higher grit. And, of course, I can appeal any time to my Proxxon when the culprit is too hard, as 2K is.

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2019 - 09:19 AM UTC
UPDATE - Replay, playback and the Tipping Point

And the masking time came again! (So fast?!) For warm-up I used as dummy the bottom pan. More detail opportunity cannot be let go begging!:


And this is the result:

I used here another product from my alchemy laboratory: Alclad Polished Aluminum 50% + Alclad Copper 50%. I guess the result is something called "rose gold", but I couldn't care less! I like as it is. Here I sprayed it in purpose in multiple coats, because I wanted it to look semi-gloss rather than gloss. Naturally, the customary "couple of touch-ups" need to be done and I'm still undecided on the floor color.

Encouraged by this small victory, I have tackled the "big game": the body shell. I have to confess that I was very nervous but I had to get going with the benefit of an unexpected day off from work.
Before anything else, I replayed in my mind, in full HD, the movie of the first disaster, trying to identify the problems and more important the solutions. Here my conclusions:

1. Being an idiot I have used a few times Tamiya 40mm masking tape and almost every time I ended up crying. Why was I persisting in mistakes?
Resolution: Stop being an idiot.
Result: No result. See below

2. Using too aggressive tape
Resolution Ditch Tamiya 40mm tape for this kind of jobs
Result: Much better, using Tamiya 18mm. It seems to me that this one inherits the best characteristics of both 10mm and 40mm. Seems to be thinner and more malleable than 10mm one but has a better adhesion - not as bad as the 40mm one though. And it is wide enough to cover relatively large surfaces.

3. Cutting too deep. I was suspecting that if I cut too deep and the solvent from Alclad reaches the cut, it will weaken the edge of the base coat or of the primer and will lift it.
Resolution: Use a bare #11 blade instead of the modeling knife
Result: I took me a few moves to get a good grip on the bare blade, but I realized I have a better control and I can do better without the leverage of the handle. I have discovered that I wasn't pressing hard enough this time!

4. Frayed edges You have noticed that the bleed I had on the side inserts were mainly because micro-tears in the masking tape.
Resolution: Change the approach. My mistake there was that I laid a wide piece of tape over the detail to be cut out, then cut it thru, hence frayed edges. I decided to mask from the sides this time, using the pre-cut edges of the tape. I also spent a few moments and plucked with a fine pair of tweezers the "paper hairs" where the cut was more rough.
Result: Much better definition of the masked edges, with minimal bleed.

And here is the result. It looks more patchy and ungaining than the first time, but it was actually much better:




The unmasking went so easy I felt disappointed! No drama?

Then I took no chances to dull again the Alclad and I applied 2K. Again, deceptively easy! And that was the tipping point of the build. From here on I guess it cannot be any decisive mistake. There are some imperfections in the clear coat, but just now I feel I don't have a single care in the world.











This picture is taken with minimal light in the photo cube:


And something like that it will look with filtered light from "normal" environment:


And I still did something stupid: being focused on the bodywork entirely, I completely forgot that the bonnet has a bald edge from rough sanding. I've seen this that only when I was ready to spray it, 2K and all mixed into the airbrush cup which went to waste... Yes, the first resolution has no results in my particular case

Epilogue: I sent the pictures to the owner, but I've got him in the wrong moment: he was attending a conference. He had yet time to mutter an obscenity. An appreciative one! So it seems I won the contract after all...



Thanks for following!
Gabriel