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Cars: Muscle Cars
60's & 70's Classics
Hosted by Joel Willstein
AMT new tool Chrysler 300C (commissioned)
Szmann
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Netherlands Antilles
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Posted: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - 12:34 AM UTC
UPDATE - New Krylon

I was saying in a previous post that I have sprayed already the mufflers and the exhaust pipes with some "silver" but just didn't looked "right". they were too "white" and somewhat too "flat".
Last time I went by the local hardware store, I grabbed a bottle of Krylon Gold enamel. I love Krylons (are better than MM or Testors enamels in my experience; cheaper too!), but their metallics were meh. That was until they changed the formula. Now they are pretty much in line with Alclads, and they stink like aromatic solvents. I decided to test them in a mix so I improvised a "burnt silver" from Silver (old), Gold (new) and Black. I achieved something pretty much like Titanium Gold. What is interesting for me, is that the finish is almost as fine as with Alclads but supports multiple coats and sanding much easier. Masking my by a problem though. The "burnt silver" was sprayed in purpose inconsistently over the previous silver:


The instructions call that the mufflers and the pipes to be painted differently. I'm thinking to keep the mufflers this way they are now and to re-spray the pipes with some sort of chrome, getting rid of the last vestiges of seam lines in the process (?) Suggestions?

Thanks for following!
Gabriel
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Posted: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - 05:09 AM UTC
Back in those days mufflers were steel. Nothing fancy, no chrome, no stainless, just steel that rusted out and needed to be replaced every few years. Especially in the north/northeast, in fact the whole exhaust system would rust out in a few years. Muffler shops were as common as full service garages. As a kid I remember going to muffler shops to have them replaced on our T-birds, Fury and Galaxy. Now mufflers last the life of the car or longer. I'm running the same muffler after 16 years. Chrome exhaust tips may have been an option but I'd have to see a brochure to be certain.
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - 05:12 AM UTC
Gabriel,
The mufflers and pipes certainly have a realistic look to them. I do recall that for the most part they were never the same Aluminum shade as they were made by different companies. The cans were generally in boxes so that they didn't oxidize on a shelf, while the pipes were just hanging on racks, and did oxidize. Just a few days on your car, and you couldn't tell the difference from the beating they took from the road gunk kicked up by your tires.

Joel
Szmann
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Netherlands Antilles
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 01:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Back in those days mufflers were steel. Nothing fancy, no chrome, no stainless, just steel that rusted out and needed to be replaced every few years. Especially in the north/northeast, in fact the whole exhaust system would rust out in a few years. Muffler shops were as common as full service garages. As a kid I remember going to muffler shops to have them replaced on our T-birds, Fury and Galaxy. Now mufflers last the life of the car or longer. I'm running the same muffler after 16 years. Chrome exhaust tips may have been an option but I'd have to see a brochure to be certain.



Thank you, Patrick!
Exhaust fixing business is quite good business on my Island (and radiators). Maybe the pipes and mufflers are made from better alloys than yesteryear, but the collars are still made in cheap steel and the salt in the air in conjunction with the heat kills them quite often.

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 01:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
The mufflers and pipes certainly have a realistic look to them. I do recall that for the most part they were never the same Aluminum shade as they were made by different companies. The cans were generally in boxes so that they didn't oxidize on a shelf, while the pipes were just hanging on racks, and did oxidize. Just a few days on your car, and you couldn't tell the difference from the beating they took from the road gunk kicked up by your tires.

Joel



Joel, very informative as usual - thank you!
I will do the painting based on your suggestion (see infra).

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 02:09 PM UTC
UPDATE - "relaxing" masking

I don't know how Damian can find masking and unmasking soothing! I agree, it's marginally more supportable than applying BMF, but still far from relaxing. Anyhow, there are my masks:

Based on Joel suggestion, the mufflers and the exhaust pipes will look differently. In my story, the Chrysler has just arrived home from the dealer (maybe 80 miles away, maybe closer) and our friend Luigi sees her for the first time (I don't think he was allowed to crawl underneath though ). I'm not sure yet what color the pipes will be (maybe some gunmetal of a sorts), but the mufflers remain as they are:

I tried to get rid of all the seam lines and is good I have this picture taken: now I see the little gap I left under the lip of the muffler in the left hand side.

But masking the mufflers was pure fun in comparison with masking the windows frames and the side inserts! I have used Tamiya 40mm tape (which actually is Kamoi tape), It is finer than Tamiya's and easier to burnish and to cut thru. The disadvantage is that sometimes (especially when very hot) it leaves glue marks (relatively easy to clean with alcohol) or even can pull the paint if the cut thru mask was too deep. All in all, I prefer it to Tamiya "regular" tape for this kind of "relaxing" jobs:


As you can see, the edge is not perfectly "clean", but I am pretty sure a pin wash will mitigate the "conflict".


Another thing I've done was to dry brush with gunmetal the chassis frame - no pictures yet because more "treatment" is to be applied.
Unfortunately my bench time run out before I could spray some Alclad chrome - this is going to be the first thing for tomorrow's session.


Cheers!
Gabriel
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 06:06 PM UTC
Gabriel, you must be very relaxed with all that masking. Scalemodeling and wellness

Excellent work on the exhaustsystem.
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 03:08 AM UTC
Gabriel,
What a great job on all that masking. Like you, I like to mask, but I don't find it all that relaxing if the job is quite complex.

Joel
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 03:39 AM UTC
Great work Gabriel.

I plan on stealing some of your methods to try myself and I feel no shame.

goodn8
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 04:27 AM UTC




Awesome work, Gabriel!

Aside all that wellness I really can't believe your speed, straightness and accuracy on this build!
With all the comments, tips and informations it's more than enjoyble. Very informative for further build plans.
Guys, thanks! This is a great guide.

About the 40mm tape you used (great job!), I experienced the same. It's very sticky and becomes very soft after a while (even if you try to de-tack it before on something - like on your hand for example - thanks Joel )

looking foreward,
Th mas
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 09:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel, you must be very relaxed with all that masking. Scalemodeling and wellness

Excellent work on the exhaustsystem.



Yup, I'm high like a kite from masking. I even think to pull out all the canopies from the aircraft on my stash and mask them, simultaneously giving up tobacco and coffee altogether


Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 10:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
What a great job on all that masking. Like you, I like to mask, but I don't find it all that relaxing if the job is quite complex.

Joel



I see it as the least of the worst The BMF application is even more nerve-racking and you cannot patch mistakes as I did here in couple of places. I (still) have a steady enough hand to pick them up by brush (or a silver pencil), but the results are "meh" at the best. Spraying Alclads seems o be the moderate method: less demanding than BMF but with better results than brush painting. And, indeed, the base training was done in 1/72nd scale canopies (especially the bombers are sweet ) - when working on 24th scale and with easy to repair paint underneath I really feel "at large" so to speak.

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 10:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Great work Gabriel.

I plan on stealing some of your methods to try myself and I feel no shame.




Charlie,
Be my guest and steal as much as your heart desires. To be honest, I am a shameless thief myself, and the "victims" of the theft were in principal Jesper, Damian and Joel

Cheers!
Gabriel
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 10:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Gabriel,
What a great job on all that masking. Like you, I like to mask, but I don't find it all that relaxing if the job is quite complex.

Joel



I see it as the least of the worst The BMF application is even more nerve-racking and you cannot patch mistakes as I did here in couple of places. I (still) have a steady enough hand to pick them up by brush (or a silver pencil), but the results are "meh" at the best. Spraying Alclads seems o be the moderate method: less demanding than BMF but with better results than brush painting. And, indeed, the base training was done in 1/72nd scale canopies (especially the bombers are sweet ) - when working on 24th scale and with easy to repair paint underneath I really feel "at large" so to speak.

Gabriel



Gabriel

I've got the same sheet of Aluminum BMF on my shelf forever, untouched by human hands. I just can't seem to talk myself into trying it.

Joel
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 10:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Awesome work, Gabriel!

Aside all that wellness I really can't believe your speed, straightness and accuracy on this build!
With all the comments, tips and informations it's more than enjoyble. Very informative for further build plans.
Guys, thanks! This is a great guide.



Thomas, I'm taking much pride from your visit. I know (most of) your exploits on Aeroscale and I have to say I've learnt pretty much from you and your approach as well.
Your words describe very eloquently the Automodeler atmosphere and the reason I love it here: Damian, Jesper and Joel always made a big point in being as informative as possible and reasoning their choices. I've grew up as an auto modeler in their shade and perhaps I've got contaminated


Quoted Text


About the 40mm tape you used (great job!), I experienced the same. It's very sticky and becomes very soft after a while (even if you try to de-stick it before on something - on your hand for example - thanks Joel )

Th mas



The nastiest thing is that sometimes leaves behind invisible residue. The worst I had it on my last Stuka: I haven't see it until I applied wash and the turpentine from wash started dissolving the residual glue. I panicked believing that my clear coat was affected and I have to redo all the painting - and it was around the junction line between the lower camo and the upper splinter, just at the root of the wings! Big scare! And - yes: de-tacking seems not to be working on Kamoi tape!

Cheers!
Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 01:13 PM UTC
Hi, guys!

UPDATE - Meeting All Expectations - Good and Bad Ones

First I have sprayed with Alclad II Chrome the wheels, directly over the chrome, because I wanted to make sure it works - I have tried it before over Tamiya chrome and worked just fine. Apparently worked here too - It remains to be seen how resilient it is:


The spraying went on nicely, not as bright as I wanted to, but I've been expecting it because I didn't spray gloss black as base and also I didn't polish too much the areas to be sprayed. However, the result is decent enough and it will look better under 2K:


Minimal seeping - also expected, easy to hide with a little wash:


Here the rubber gasket edge can be seen quite clearly - that one I'm going to brush paint it with some black all the way to the end, just before adding the windows:


... And also expected, (unwanted, but expected) the tape have lifted some paint:




Luckily enough, the both affected spots are rather easy to reach for sanding. What I haven't decided yet is if I'm going to do the patching before or after the first coat of 2K. I don't take the risk to mask over Alclad, nor to play too much with it for fear of dulling it...

I'm optimistic though - I guess is more good than bad in this episode:

Cheers!
Gabriel
Stickframe
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 02:05 PM UTC
Hi Gabriel,

Wow! Your paintwork looks great! The couple of peeled areas should be relatively easy to fix, as you noted. It’s nice to see so little bleeding, and, I can’t see any “tape edge” - I don’t know what that’s actually called - but, I mean the hard edge you can sometimes see when masking - I seem to be a master at creating this edge haha!

Looking forward to your next update!
Cheers
Nick
RussellE
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 09:20 PM UTC
ooo-Gabriel!

I feel your pain man! Nothing worse than paint peel at this stage!

What kind of masking tape do you use?

I always find painters blue low tack to be the best...

Still, being a toxic avenger and still using enamels for my builds I find the paint goes on "hot" and I don't experience too many troubles...
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 10:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Gabriel,

Wow! Your paintwork looks great! The couple of peeled areas should be relatively easy to fix, as you noted. It’s nice to see so little bleeding, and, I can’t see any “tape edge” - I don’t know what that’s actually called - but, I mean the hard edge you can sometimes see when masking - I seem to be a master at creating this edge haha!

Looking forward to your next update!
Cheers
Nick



Hi, Nick! Thank you for moral support! Yes, I know what you mean with "tape edge". That's the reason why I have used Tamiya 40mm: it is very fine rice paper (you can see how translucent in the masking pictures). Thinner the edges, thinner the step between two coats of paint. Besides, Alclads have to be sprayed very thin, from a single pass if possible and there is virtually no build-up. Technique is also important: whenever possible, I am spraying away from the tape's edge and not towards it. If the angle doesn't allow me that, I just try to spray perpendicular to surface, minimizing build-ups.

I may try something new this time, to deal with the bleeding... let see now if it works in the good way

Cheers!
Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 11:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

ooo-Gabriel!

I feel your pain man! Nothing worse than paint peel at this stage!

What kind of masking tape do you use?

I always find painters blue low tack to be the best...

Still, being a toxic avenger and still using enamels for my builds I find the paint goes on "hot" and I don't experience too many troubles...



Russ, I have used Tamiya 40mm knowing the risk, because its thinness and because is not elastic; less elastic the masking tape, straighter the cuts and lesser the bleed thru. I use blue masking tape (or green) low tack for other purposes but in my climate is always the risk that it won't stick properly. I had many of a time the surprise that my carefully masking from the night before was unwrapped in all corners and edges in the morning...

I am a "toxic avenger" as well - haha! I'm going to engrave that expression in one of the last functioning cells in my brains - stronger the solvent, happier I am . In this case I have used Rust-oleum enamels, mixed to match (relatively that is) the Ditzler Catalog Indian Turqoise, diluted with MLT.

Cheers!
Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Saturday, January 26, 2019 - 12:20 AM UTC
Hi, guys!

UPDATE - More yet on metallics and exhaust

I started patching my chipped paint work on the car's body, and meanwhile I've returned to the chassis sub-assemblies. Finally I am happy with the metallic on the pipes and mufflers. I have mixed yet another "gunmetal", this time throwing some matte black from Testors into play. I have focused primarily on covering the bare plastic resulted from scrapping the seam lines, then I applied in "hasty" manner over the remaining surfaces, leaving some of the old color(s) to shine thru:


Now the remaining question is: satin or gloss clear over them? I'm leaning towards gloss, to offset a little the "sugar coating" effect of the matte paint.

Thanks for following!
Gabriel
AussieReg
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Posted: Saturday, January 26, 2019 - 01:10 AM UTC
Gabriel, those exhausts look great. Really nice metal effect.

A shame about the paint peeling. Did the paint peel from the primer, or paint and primer together peel from the plastic? I have been "dulling down" the raw kit parts with P400 grit wet and dry paper to give the primer plenty of opportunity to bite to the surface.

Looking forward to the next update.

Cheers, D
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, January 26, 2019 - 04:06 AM UTC
Gabriel,
The pipes and cans look absolutely real. You simply did a fantastic job. I was thinking about how I always referred to them as aluminum, because that's what we always did back in the day. But the truth be told the street versions weren't aluminum, they were various types of Steel Alloy. Hence, the rusting and rotting especially along the wield seams.

The paint really came out looking exceeding well. I was surprised to see those few areas where the Tamiya tape pulled off the paint. I always have that in the back of my mind when I mask, so I take even more of a conservative approach. I only use
Tamiya tape for masking where it actually touches any painted surface. And I lay down the tape a few times on a clean area of my cutting mat. That will pull off any extra tacky stuff. Following that procedure, I've never had any issues. The few times I did, a careful examination showed that once again yours truly forgot to use a tack cloth , and I paid the penalty for the mental mistake.

Joel
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Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2019 - 05:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi, guys!

UPDATE - More yet on metallics and exhaust

I started patching my chipped paint work on the car's body, and meanwhile I've returned to the chassis sub-assemblies. Finally I am happy with the metallic on the pipes and mufflers. I have mixed yet another "gunmetal", this time throwing some matte black from Testors into play. I have focused primarily on covering the bare plastic resulted from scrapping the seam lines, then I applied in "hasty" manner over the remaining surfaces, leaving some of the old color(s) to shine thru:

Now the remaining question is: satin or gloss clear over them? I'm leaning towards gloss, to offset a little the "sugar coating" effect of the matte paint.

Thanks for following!
Gabriel



I'd leave them as they are they look great. Remember they are unfinished steel so they wouldn't be glossy. I don't believe they even had a protective varnish on them and if they did it burned off as soon as they fired up the engine. Give them a good wash like you did the engine and trans and that should be good. I agree the matte would be to much but definitely no gloss.

I gotta tell you when I saw the paint peel I almost felt like I was kicked in the groin. I was thinking 'did the paint cure completely?' 'Was the adhesive on the tape too agressive?' 'Did he anger the gods of plastic?' Next time be sure to make a proper offering to the patron saint of plastic fanatics and use a less aggressive tape.
Hwa-Rang
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Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2019 - 06:31 PM UTC
Hi Gabriel.

Bummer about the paint. Keppeing my fingers crossed, hoping you can fix it.

The exhaust look awesome. Gloss or sating coat, hmmm. Just a thought, how about rubing/light polishing the flatt paint job, to a semi gloss finish. Most likely you cant get into all bends, turns and crevicis, but that could work as a kind of shading. This is NOT something I have tried myself, just idea that popped into my head.