I am glad to see a lot of research going in to this French classic. Thanks for your photo Joel, that confirms all the pictures I have seen of Citroen's as well. I am with Damian on this, I think a manufacturing error along the lines of seeing one representation, possibly wrong, and assuming it is representative of all. We certainly see that in all other categories of modelling.
For this iconic body shape, Citroen released several models over the twenty years of production, the ID19, D19, D Special, ID20, D20, D Super, D Super 5, DS19, DS20, DS21 and DS23 so you would have to be a real anorak to know all the subtle changes over the years other than the most noticeable move from frog eye headlights to enclosed lights.
As I said, I will send Ebbro a message and see what response they have.
cheers
Michael
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Cosimodo
#335
Joined: September 03, 2013
KitMaker: 1,808 posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 21, 2019 - 07:26 PM UTC
Joel_W
Associate Editor
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Monday, July 22, 2019 - 01:01 AM UTC
Michael,
Any kind of mold modification wouldn't come cheap or very quickly unless Ebbro is planning on a similar version like the D23.
I was really surprised at how many wrong version pictures came up during either Bing or Google searches. In most cases it was the sites that got it wrong. But for someone like me that has such limited knowledge at what I was looking for, I was misled way to many times. The easiest hint of a wrong version was the dashboard.
Have you developed any kind of a plan for a fix at this point?
Joel
Any kind of mold modification wouldn't come cheap or very quickly unless Ebbro is planning on a similar version like the D23.
I was really surprised at how many wrong version pictures came up during either Bing or Google searches. In most cases it was the sites that got it wrong. But for someone like me that has such limited knowledge at what I was looking for, I was misled way to many times. The easiest hint of a wrong version was the dashboard.
Have you developed any kind of a plan for a fix at this point?
Joel
Stickframe
#362
Joined: December 01, 2013
KitMaker: 1,661 posts
Auto Modeler: 431 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 09:47 AM UTC
Hi Michael,
This is one clean build! Looks great. Too bad about the armrest - weird really. I’m sure you’ll establish a good solution -
Cheers
Nick
This is one clean build! Looks great. Too bad about the armrest - weird really. I’m sure you’ll establish a good solution -
Cheers
Nick
Cosimodo
#335
Joined: September 03, 2013
KitMaker: 1,808 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 29, 2019 - 07:19 PM UTC
Thanks Nick and Joel.
The solution will most likely be a lump of Milliput shaped generally while soft and then sanded into a final shape. I will see how that goes first then think about a plan B if that doesn't work
cheers
Michael
The solution will most likely be a lump of Milliput shaped generally while soft and then sanded into a final shape. I will see how that goes first then think about a plan B if that doesn't work
cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
#335
Joined: September 03, 2013
KitMaker: 1,808 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 29, 2019 - 07:28 PM UTC
Having shown the engine earlier I added some plumbing now I had the engine bay painted. I am no mechanic so I looked at a lot of photos except of course almost no two were alike, not surprising for a car made over twenty years.
Anyway, some basic ignition wiring though I had to manufacture a coil (the blue piece) for that wire to go somewhere. I also put in an overflow tube for the radiator and on the airbox I gave the pretense of a rubber seal by winding some eze line around the middle. There are some other random pipes and hoses that I saw in pictures and thought would be easy to replicate.
This Citroen doesn't have a grill like most cars and so the airflow to the radiator comes in under the front and is guided in with the use of a canvas frame. this was attached using dome clips hence the added aluminium spots.
And of course with french quirkiness, what better place to keep the spare
cheers
Michael
Anyway, some basic ignition wiring though I had to manufacture a coil (the blue piece) for that wire to go somewhere. I also put in an overflow tube for the radiator and on the airbox I gave the pretense of a rubber seal by winding some eze line around the middle. There are some other random pipes and hoses that I saw in pictures and thought would be easy to replicate.
This Citroen doesn't have a grill like most cars and so the airflow to the radiator comes in under the front and is guided in with the use of a canvas frame. this was attached using dome clips hence the added aluminium spots.
And of course with french quirkiness, what better place to keep the spare
cheers
Michael
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 06:38 AM UTC
Michael,
Now that's one nicely detailed engine compartment. The Coil and bracket look great. The overflow line really adds that something extra as does the line you wrapped around the air cleaner box. But just one question, what is that Green container to the right of the radiator for?
As for the spare tire in front of the radiator it actually makes sense, and saves space in the trunk. Of course I'd worry about excess heat warping the tire. But that's just me.
Joel
Now that's one nicely detailed engine compartment. The Coil and bracket look great. The overflow line really adds that something extra as does the line you wrapped around the air cleaner box. But just one question, what is that Green container to the right of the radiator for?
As for the spare tire in front of the radiator it actually makes sense, and saves space in the trunk. Of course I'd worry about excess heat warping the tire. But that's just me.
Joel
AussieReg
Associate Editor
#007
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 8,156 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 11:01 AM UTC
Lovely work Michael, really neat detailing. I know zero about Citroens so I went exploring and found a couple of nice images.
Looks to me like it is a transmission fluid reservoir for the semi-automatic gear shift system.
Cheers, D
Quoted Text
But just one question, what is that Green container to the right of the radiator for?
Looks to me like it is a transmission fluid reservoir for the semi-automatic gear shift system.
Cheers, D
Cosimodo
#335
Joined: September 03, 2013
KitMaker: 1,808 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 12:34 PM UTC
Damian could be right. I thought it was the reservoir for the hydraulics system that operated the transmission but also the front and rear suspension.
cheers
Michael
cheers
Michael
AussieReg
Associate Editor#007
Joined: June 09, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 02:28 PM UTC
I was actually hoping that it was a beer keg that fed to taps in the front and rear consoles 
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 11:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I was actually hoping that it was a beer keg that fed to taps in the front and rear consoles
Most likely it's the reservoir for the transmission, but I'm still hoping that it turns out to be the "dry sump" for the deluxe interior beer system. Now that would be something. But alas, it's a French car, so most likely it would be for either Red or White wine.
Joel
RussellE
#306
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 3,959 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 09:20 AM UTC
Lovely details on the engine Michael 
I especially like the decals that have been added-a nice touch.
May I ask what you used for the spark plug cables?
I especially like the decals that have been added-a nice touch.
May I ask what you used for the spark plug cables?
Cosimodo
#335
Joined: September 03, 2013
KitMaker: 1,808 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 12:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Lovely details on the engine Michael
I especially like the decals that have been added-a nice touch.
May I ask what you used for the spark plug cables?
Thanks Russ, glad you like it like!
On the wiring I used 0.25 mm copper wire, with the plus that it is easy to shape and stays in shape, the minus being it doesn't hold paint particularly well.
cheers
Michael
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Friday, August 02, 2019 - 12:49 AM UTC
Michael,
Like you, I've had plenty of issues with getting plastic model paint to stick to Copper or Aluminum wire as their surfaces are super smooth. So I took a different approach that does work. I pre-sand the wires with 600 emery cloth. then wiped down with plain old Iso Alcohol. Now the paint has a better surface to grab on to. As long as I didn't re-bend the wires to change shape to much, the paint stayed in place.
One thing that I've thought of, but never tried is Latex paint, as it does stretch some once dry. of course the smallest size you can buy a color is a pint, so that should be enough for a life time plus.
Joel
Like you, I've had plenty of issues with getting plastic model paint to stick to Copper or Aluminum wire as their surfaces are super smooth. So I took a different approach that does work. I pre-sand the wires with 600 emery cloth. then wiped down with plain old Iso Alcohol. Now the paint has a better surface to grab on to. As long as I didn't re-bend the wires to change shape to much, the paint stayed in place.
One thing that I've thought of, but never tried is Latex paint, as it does stretch some once dry. of course the smallest size you can buy a color is a pint, so that should be enough for a life time plus.
Joel
Dixon66
Joined: December 12, 2002
KitMaker: 1,500 posts
Auto Modeler: 645 posts
Posted: Friday, August 02, 2019 - 06:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
One thing that I've thought of, but never tried is Latex paint, as it does stretch some once dry. of course the smallest size you can buy a color is a pint, so that should be enough for a life time plus.
Joel
Some places have smaller sample size available, sometimes free. Might be worth a shot.
Hwa-Rang
Joined: June 29, 2004
KitMaker: 6,760 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 04, 2019 - 09:05 PM UTC
Mighty fine engine detailing there Michael.
Cosimodo
#335
Joined: September 03, 2013
KitMaker: 1,808 posts
Auto Modeler: 701 posts
Posted: Monday, August 05, 2019 - 07:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Mighty fine engine detailing there Michael.
Thanks Jesper! There are some ideas there I have borrowed from your engine bays.
cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
#335
Joined: September 03, 2013
KitMaker: 1,808 posts
Auto Modeler: 701 posts
Posted: Monday, August 05, 2019 - 07:31 PM UTC
The weekly update!
Moved to the interior. First off, deal with the missing armrest. I tried some Milliput but realised after it wouldn't set I may have had it for too long. So I used Tamiya's version which worked fine.
I made a rough approximation while it was till soft and carved it into shape.
Sprayed it with primer to see the flaws and then smoothed it out with brushed on Mr Hobby 1000. Some sanding and we got there. Fairly close anyway. It is top left.
One thing I do like about this kit is some of the details like the separate door handles and window winders. On the the other auto kits I have built in this scale they have just been moulded on.
Rear door panels in place.
Citroen only had a choice of two interior colours - red or blue. They also had ivory accents.
Another nice touch is the separate armrest for the rear bench seat.
The backs of the front seats are finished in ivory
But for the good touches, there are the cheap ones as well. You can see the black blobs which represent two of the pedals. You do get a standalone clutch pedal, go figure.
In situ for the time being
Next up, clear coating the body panels and headlights.
cheers
Michael
Moved to the interior. First off, deal with the missing armrest. I tried some Milliput but realised after it wouldn't set I may have had it for too long. So I used Tamiya's version which worked fine.
I made a rough approximation while it was till soft and carved it into shape.
Sprayed it with primer to see the flaws and then smoothed it out with brushed on Mr Hobby 1000. Some sanding and we got there. Fairly close anyway. It is top left.
One thing I do like about this kit is some of the details like the separate door handles and window winders. On the the other auto kits I have built in this scale they have just been moulded on.
Rear door panels in place.
Citroen only had a choice of two interior colours - red or blue. They also had ivory accents.
Another nice touch is the separate armrest for the rear bench seat.
The backs of the front seats are finished in ivory
But for the good touches, there are the cheap ones as well. You can see the black blobs which represent two of the pedals. You do get a standalone clutch pedal, go figure.
In situ for the time being
Next up, clear coating the body panels and headlights.
cheers
Michael
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Auto Modeler: 2,974 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 01:44 AM UTC
Michael,
Great update
You did an excellent job on making that missing arm rest. I really can't tell the difference from the kit molded ones.
The interior Red has just the right amount of sheen to look like leather rather then just a glossed plastic surface.
Those pedals do look kind of weird, but I'm guessing that once the interior is buttoned up, you'd be hard pressed to see them.
Looking forward to next weeks update for sure.
Joel
Great update
You did an excellent job on making that missing arm rest. I really can't tell the difference from the kit molded ones.
The interior Red has just the right amount of sheen to look like leather rather then just a glossed plastic surface.
Those pedals do look kind of weird, but I'm guessing that once the interior is buttoned up, you'd be hard pressed to see them.
Looking forward to next weeks update for sure.
Joel
RussellE
#306
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 3,959 posts
Auto Modeler: 495 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 - 09:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Michael,
Great update
You did an excellent job on making that missing arm rest. I really can't tell the difference from the kit molded ones.
The interior Red has just the right amount of sheen to look like leather rather then just a glossed plastic surface.
Those pedals do look kind of weird, but I'm guessing that once the interior is buttoned up, you'd be hard pressed to see them.
Looking forward to next weeks update for sure.
Joel
I second what Joel said
She's looking great Michael. Those Frenchies sure were brave with their colour choices
Stickframe
#362
Joined: December 01, 2013
KitMaker: 1,661 posts
Auto Modeler: 431 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 - 03:41 PM UTC
Hi Michael,
Nice save on the armrest! I’ll say it again, this is one clean build - Wow! Nice build
Cheers
Nick
Nice save on the armrest! I’ll say it again, this is one clean build - Wow! Nice build
Cheers
Nick
Cosimodo
#335
Joined: September 03, 2013
KitMaker: 1,808 posts
Auto Modeler: 701 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 07:34 PM UTC
Thanks Joel, Russ and Nick for the great words of encouragement.
I agree the French had their own style for cars, a certain je ne sais quoi. The clean build I will take certainly take but I would like to do a well used car, not the full rust bucket, but maybe one that's been around the clock. I'll have to do some research and practice.
cheers
Michael
I agree the French had their own style for cars, a certain je ne sais quoi. The clean build I will take certainly take but I would like to do a well used car, not the full rust bucket, but maybe one that's been around the clock. I'll have to do some research and practice.
cheers
Michael
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Auto Modeler: 2,974 posts
Posted: Friday, August 09, 2019 - 12:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks Joel, Russ and Nick for the great words of encouragement.
I agree the French had their own style for cars, a certain je ne sais quoi. The clean build I will take certainly take but I would like to do a well used car, not the full rust bucket, but maybe one that's been around the clock. I'll have to do some research and practice.
cheers
Michael
Michael,
I'd vote for a well maintained but daily used family car, that could use some TLC, but certainly not showing much if any rust.
Joel
RussellE
#306
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 3,959 posts
Auto Modeler: 495 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2019 - 11:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThanks Joel, Russ and Nick for the great words of encouragement.
I agree the French had their own style for cars, a certain je ne sais quoi. The clean build I will take certainly take but I would like to do a well used car, not the full rust bucket, but maybe one that's been around the clock. I'll have to do some research and practice.
cheers
Michael
Michael,
I'd vote for a well maintained but daily used family car, that could use some TLC, but certainly not showing much if any rust.
Joel
sounds just like my car
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Auto Modeler: 2,974 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 12:47 AM UTC
Russell,
Being a car guy, and finally getting a sports coup after nearly 35 years of negotiations with my wife, The Coupe looks better today then when I picked it up at the dealer March 7, 2014. And since retirement I rarely go out in the rain & snow, so a spray bottle of Detailer lasts a lot longer. Worst time of the year is the Pollen season. Multiple weekly washes and wipes are the norm.
Joel
Being a car guy, and finally getting a sports coup after nearly 35 years of negotiations with my wife, The Coupe looks better today then when I picked it up at the dealer March 7, 2014. And since retirement I rarely go out in the rain & snow, so a spray bottle of Detailer lasts a lot longer. Worst time of the year is the Pollen season. Multiple weekly washes and wipes are the norm.
Joel
RussellE
#306
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 3,959 posts
Auto Modeler: 495 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 09:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Russell,
Being a car guy, and finally getting a sports coup after nearly 35 years of negotiations with my wife, The Coupe looks better today then when I picked it up at the dealer March 7, 2014. And since retirement I rarely go out in the rain & snow, so a spray bottle of Detailer lasts a lot longer. Worst time of the year is the Pollen season. Multiple weekly washes and wipes are the norm.
Joel
Like wise, Joel, I too am a car guy/petrol head and love the customs from the 60's and 70's that still grace the car shows here.
I'd love a new Mustang for my daily driver (so I'm a little bit jealous I must admit, LOL), but the minister for finance says I must stick with, admittedly what may soon become a local classic at any rate, my locally built 4 door Ford that's now 15years old. Very well maintained (obsessively according to my wife) but still my daily driver and normal wear and tear is preferable to my eye on her. The worst thing here is the dust, and trying to keep up with keeping her clean hence I support your logic in avoiding the rain and snow
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