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Cars: Other Racing
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Hosted by Joel Willstein
Pretty in Pink - Porsche 917/20 (MFH)
Cosimodo
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Posted: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 - 01:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael,
I already have one question which concerns the white metal parts, and that's of how do you polish the small parts that bend or break easily? Many of the builds I've seen, the white metal parts seem to be the one area that's the most difficult to finish to the same level as the other mediums in the kit.

Joel



What I learned from the Gunze Ferrari I built last year, especially for the bumpers, it takes a few coats of primer, interspersed with sanding, to get a smooth finish. Fortunately, Porsche didn't waste too much time chroming parts so the real challenge will be for the engine frame which is part polished aluminium by the looks of it. Certainly the grain of the white metal is slightly coarser the casting of the original parts, but I think the darker matt colours will probably obscure that.

cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
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Posted: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 - 01:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text

+200 parts, for the engine. That is serious detailing.



Admittedly a quarter of those come from the installation of the trumpets which have rivets to hold them in place. 4 per trumpet, 12 trumpets, 60 parts = I am sure.

cheers
Michael
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 01:22 AM UTC
Michael,
Looking forward to seeing how you deal with the white metal. And I'm certainly most keen on seeing that magnificent engine come to life.

Joel
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 02:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael,
Looking forward to seeing how you deal with the white metal. And I'm certainly most keen on seeing that magnificent engine come to life.

Joel



Well this should help.
Still in dry fit stage seeing how this all comes together before I commit to paint and glue.
The cylinders have white metal inlet and exhaust attachments.



The spark plugs are in groups of six (twin sparks) to hold the cylinders in place and the equal distance apart.

The cam sit over the top, made up of 3 pieces



And the fit from the top. Excuse the fingers, since it's just a dry fit the only way I could hold all together.


Still some tidied up required to get the best fit, then I will clean the resin and send it off for priming.

cheers
Michael
AussieReg
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 02:32 PM UTC
That is just stunning detail Michael, it looks like a lot of fun to work with!

Cheers, D
Stickframe
#362
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California, United States
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 03:59 PM UTC
Beauty! Just beauty!

Keep building, and please keep posting!

Have fun
Nick
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 01:00 AM UTC
Michael,
The engine already looks amazing just in it's dry fitting stage.

Joel
RussellE
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Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2020 - 09:08 PM UTC
Wow! That is some detailed engine, Michael!
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 12:39 PM UTC
Thanks guys. Your support is really appreciated.


Quoted Text

That is just stunning detail Michael, it looks like a lot of fun to work with!



I am not sure fun is the word I would use at this stage. the detail is great, the assembly is challenging. See below.


Quoted Text

Beauty! Just beauty!

Keep building, and please keep posting!



And here are some more photos then. I would say it is critical with MFH to check everything before final assembly, not only for the engine but several steps ahead because each piece requires some work for connections and you don't want to be doing that once the engine is built.
So here are some of the elements that go on the block.

A good example of prefitting is the gearbox. It isn't attached until step 4, after the engine is installed in the chassis but it took some work to get it sit properly which would have been very difficult in the frame.

The fan and shroud are very nicely done. The metal fittings look really good.


And the distributors are nicely detailed.


And why isn't this so much fun. Well everything is classic pin/socket connection, like most models today. However for thos kit, and I don't know if it typical of MFH, is you have to drill out all the sockets, resin and metal, which after a time becomes tedious. The socket is represented by slight dimples so you know where to start. It does allow you to have a tight fit but the work involved is tedious.Every attachment above has been drilled for fitting to the block or together to form the pieces. What is required is shown by these.
You see the dimple in the engine mounts here, they have to be drilled out to a depth of 2.5mm. All my drilling is by hand because I don't trust my cheap Dremel copy.


But it's the little ones that bug me the most. These are some of the wiring and fuel hose guides. About 90 0.6mm holes to be drilled in these. I think my drill bits will pretty blunt by the end of this.


Still it's all part of the experience. You get your works worth from these kits but the detail is amazing. I have sorted out all the parts for the engine so now it is just priming and painting.

cheers
Michael





AussieReg
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Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 03:20 PM UTC
The level of detail really is stunning, but what you describe is almost approaching engineering rather than scale modelling with the level of precision required!

Cheers, D
Stickframe
#362
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Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 04:21 PM UTC
Hi Michael,

This is a very interesting process. I've found these and other multi-media kits frequently require the re-drilling of connection points in white metal. It can become a bit much. I eventually went onto ebay and purchased drill bits in packs of 12 because they went dull quickly and periodically snapped.

That said, now that I've done it a few times, I enjoy this process a bit more than traditional kits. I haven't tried a 1/12 kit yet, so I can't say what it's like when you likely have more parts and problems to work with.

The ignition wiring and fuel line harnesses in 1/24 and 1/20 seem to usually be etch material. Maybe at 1/12 the etch looks flimsy or out of scale so they went with white metal? For the smaller scale Porsche kits, these parts are also tedious to work with, but in the end, I found them to be helpful/worthwhile when considering how many wires and tubes you run, all woven around one another. Just like the real car, they help manage it.

I couldn't quite tell from your post if you glued or are dry fitting the transaxle and engine. On the MFH 1/24 908 you had to keep the two pieces separated until the engine is installed because the fit of the engine in the chassis is so tight - I don't think it was possible to swing and drop the engine and transaxle into it's snug cage, though I thought it would make sense, I don't think I could make it work - again, might be different in 1/12.

I had a similar challenge with the Fujimi/Historic Racing Miniatures (resin engine kit) 917 build, and as I recall, I needed to keep the two separated until a final installation.

The tube chassis assembly will likely require a similar re-drilling process. For what it's worth, I found in addition to re-drilling connections, I began adding small metal pins for key/major connections, instead of relying on the white metal pins. This might not be the case for 1/12 scale - I don't know. I did this because while the parts went together pretty well the first time, I found myself jiggling the parts apart while trying to connect them to the chassis/tub, body, and when adding other parts, like control arms and sway bars, and when trying to get the car to sit flat on all four.

I didn't find the assemblies to be particularly fragile, but they were a challenge to merge, and I found myself popping individual parts off while handling them - which was frustrating. The metal pins eliminated this problem.

Please take my comments in the spirit they're offered, as a fellow model builder's courtesy! I broke and tore apart parts and figured out how to address the problems so maybe you don't have to! haha! Or, I'm just a clunky model builder and you're good to go!

I'm hooked on and enjoy these multi-media kits. To Damian's comment, I fully agree and find it to be an interesting and rewarding process. I recently found a blog of a guy rebuilding a Ferrari at home, (I think it's called FrankenFerrari - and is remarkable) going so far as to remilling/boring engine parts, welding the aluminum heads - and so on - in his garage! I concluded that if he can do that on a real car, I can have fun trying something out of the ordinary with a kt.

OK, take care, and have fun (oh, and stay well!)

Cheers
Nick
Cosimodo
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Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 05:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The level of detail really is stunning, but what you describe is almost approaching engineering rather than scale modelling with the level of precision required!

Cheers, D



Damian, maybe scale engineering? It certainly is a learning exercise and requires plenty of planning, which I enjoy, just not so much the repetion. I guess it what armour builders go through when they assemble tracks. Maybe there is some therapy in there

Cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 05:56 PM UTC
Hi Michael,

This is a very interesting process. I've found these and other multi-media kits frequently require the re-drilling of connection points in white metal. It can become a bit much. I eventually went onto ebay and purchased drill bits in packs of 12 because they went dull quickly and periodically snapped.


Ha, yes been a couple so far. Saved by the fact there are several different sizes required.

That said, now that I've done it a few times, I enjoy this process a bit more than traditional kits. I haven't tried a 1/12 kit yet, so I can't say what it's like when you likely have more parts and problems to work with.

I dont think I would want to try this in a smaller scale.

The ignition wiring and fuel line harnesses in 1/24 and 1/20 seem to usually be etch material. Maybe at 1/12 the etch looks flimsy or out of scale so they went with white metal? For the smaller scale Porsche kits, these parts are also tedious to work with, but in the end, I found them to be helpful/worthwhile when considering how many wires and tubes you run, all woven around one another. Just like the real car, they help manage it.

No doubt they're essential to manage the mass of wires and I am sure once done and in place I will be very happy.

I couldn't quite tell from your post if you glued or are dry fitting the transaxle and engine. On the MFH 1/24 908 you had to keep the two pieces separated until the engine is installed because the fit of the engine in the chassis is so tight - I don't think it was possible to swing and drop the engine and transaxle into it's snug cage, though I thought it would make sense, I don't think I could make it work - again, might be different in 1/12.

You're absolutely right. The gearbox has to go on after the engine is installed in the chassis. It is a dry fit, what I think I was trying to say, it took a lot of effort to get the dry fit. I would not have wanted to do that when the engine was in the cradle of tubes.

I had a similar challenge with the Fujimi/Historic Racing Miniatures (resin engine kit) 917 build, and as I recall, I needed to keep the two separated until a final installation.

The tube chassis assembly will likely require a similar re-drilling process. For what it's worth, I found in addition to re-drilling connections, I began adding small metal pins for key/major connections, instead of relying on the white metal pins. This might not be the case for 1/12 scale - I don't know. I did this because while the parts went together pretty well the first time, I found myself jiggling the parts apart while trying to connect them to the chassis/tub, body, and when adding other parts, like control arms and sway bars, and when trying to get the car to sit flat on all four.

I didn't find the assemblies to be particularly fragile, but they were a challenge to merge, and I found myself popping individual parts off while handling them - which was frustrating. The metal pins eliminated this problem.

Please take my comments in the spirit they're offered, as a fellow model builder's courtesy! I broke and tore apart parts and figured out how to address the problems so maybe you don't have to! haha! Or, I'm just a clunky model builder and you're good to go!


Nick, I very much respect your comments. You have done a lot with multimedia and seeing your earlier work on MFH stuff gave me an a good idea of what still lies ahead. Please continue to comment away and let me know what you think. It is all very helpful to me.

I'm hooked on and enjoy these multi-media kits. To Damian's comment, I fully agree and find it to be an interesting and rewarding process. I recently found a blog of a guy rebuilding a Ferrari at home, (I think it's called FrankenFerrari - and is remarkable) going so far as to remilling/boring engine parts, welding the aluminum heads - and so on - in his garage! I concluded that if he can do that on a real car, I can have fun trying something out of the ordinary with a kt.

Already thinking about the next one

Cheers
Michael
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2020 - 01:16 AM UTC
Michael & Nick,
I really enjoy following your conversations. I've learned quite a lot about the actual multi media kit experience. But in my case, the price is just way out of my modeling budget no matter how I try to justify it as I'd go 1/12 scale over 1/24 scale for sure, if for no other reason then my poor eyesight.

Joel
Szmann
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2020 - 11:19 AM UTC
Hi, Michael!
I somehow missed this update and it's only now that I cought up with it. The level of detail it's insane - and so it's the amount of drilling you have to complete, but the result it's going to be magnificent. I can only anticipate the blast I'm gonna have seeing that engine fully assembled and detailed!

Gabriel
rv1963
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2020 - 02:37 PM UTC
Michael really a great build, that engine detail is amazing.
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2020 - 09:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael & Nick,
I really enjoy following your conversations. I've learned quite a lot about the actual multi media kit experience. But in my case, the price is just way out of my modeling budget no matter how I try to justify it as I'd go 1/12 scale over 1/24 scale for sure, if for no other reason then my poor eyesight.

Joel



thanks Joel. I have learned a lot from Nick as well. I know what you mean about eyesight. Building in a bigger scale certainly helps though you get more options, even with Tamiya 1/12 kits like Patrick is building.

cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2020 - 09:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi, Michael!
I somehow missed this update and it's only now that I cought up with it. The level of detail it's insane - and so it's the amount of drilling you have to complete, but the result it's going to be magnificent. I can only anticipate the blast I'm gonna have seeing that engine fully assembled and detailed!

Gabriel



no pressure then from the one best detailers on Automodeler. I hope I can do the flat twelve justice! Actually the amount of detail may hide some of the flaws, there will be so much to see. Cheers for support Gabriel.

Michael
Cosimodo
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2020 - 09:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael really a great build, that engine detail is amazing.



Thank you Robert, glad to have following along.

cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2020 - 10:13 PM UTC
I am getting different assemblies ready for paint.
I thought I would show the fuel pump, dry sitting on the top cam cover.

It has a clear resin panel on both sides which is a nice touch. However the small triangular piece on the top right is the pivot point for the throttle connection. For the throttles themselves those pivots are in etch brass. I might copy them and replace that piece.

The holes in the cam cover are the mounting pointing for the cables guides. I can see one got away on me.

And of course the obligatory holes drilled for the fuel line connectors. One line for each injector.


The belts and pulleys are also well done though each of the belts has a seam line that requires some filing. A change from drilling though

cheers
Michael
RussellE
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2020 - 11:04 PM UTC
just amazed at the level of detail here, Michael
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 - 01:49 AM UTC
Michael,
As Russell said, the level of detail is just simply amazing. Every picture is just a wealth of detail on top of detail.

Joel
Hwa-Rang
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Posted: Friday, May 01, 2020 - 06:44 AM UTC
It's a joy watching the build, of such a detailed kit. Amazing.
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 - 08:53 PM UTC
Thanks Russ, Joel and Jesper.
The kit is amazing and what I am sort growing to like it that you have to work for it. Always have to keep a file and knife handy to make sure things fit. But once in place, it does look great.

cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 - 09:10 PM UTC
Well you have seen all the dry fitting. It was now time for some action!

Spent the weekend painting the engine and bits. lots of black mixed with metallics, like steel, iron and silver. Brass gets a look in as well. I pretty happy with the outcome so far.

The block and cylinders(still dry fitted at this stage) just to make everything was going to work together.



One of the time consuming bits of painting was picking out all the bolt heads.
The shroud was a tight fit and cost me some paint in the dry fit.


So with that fitting, I set those then started to add the ancillaries e.g. distributors, fuel pump, generator, belts and throttle linkages.






It wasn't all plain sailing. Had to replace some white metal with brass rod and also used it for pins. A lot on top is still dry fitted because next up are the trumpets and the electrical and fuel hoses to the injectors so need the flexibility to operate.

cheers
Michael