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Cars: Other Racing
For automotive racing topics not already covered.
Hosted by Joel Willstein
Pretty in Pink - Porsche 917/20 (MFH)
AussieReg
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AUTOMODELER
#007
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 - 10:38 PM UTC
You should be happy, that looks amazing!
Dixon66
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New Hampshire, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 - 11:44 PM UTC
Wow! Your paint metallic effects look great.
Szmann
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Netherlands Antilles
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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 12:59 AM UTC
Nice variation in metallic tones that make all the elements to pop, without being garish. Excellent!

Gabriel
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 01:40 AM UTC
Michael,
Your engine/transaxle assembly looks absolutely amazing. I really mean that. Sure, the kit parts are state of the art, but your painting and custom blending and mixing to achieve those various metallic shades is a true game changer.

Honestly, I truly struggle with coming up with the appropriate colors for engines, transaxles, transmissions, etc. Could you post how you go about it? It would really help me get to that next level in realism that I've been struggling with. The Lotus 99t engine/transaxle is painted more towards what other builders did, then the actual car looks like in pictures.

Joel
Stickframe
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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 06:06 AM UTC
Hi Michael,

The engine sure looks good - very crisp details and colors. I like the throttle linkages and mechanicals a lot. I think those elements really push the look of realism and as a bonus, I think they're fun to build.

Can you tell us about how big that engine is? a few inches/CMs long and wide? The 1/24 version is pretty big; yes, I know - twice as big as the 1/24!. Just curious as it looks big and heavy!

The smaller version has holes for fuel lines and injectors on the trumpets, but no fittings. Does the 1/12 version provide fittings on top of the trumpets? With or without fittings, I'm looking forward to seeing the tubing and wiring in place.

The engine is so nice, it's too bad that it will be hard to see all that goes into it when it's done.

I remember you posting some pictures of the Pink Pig in a shop, with some body panels removed - I remember that because I have the same in 1/24 and thought it would be a good starting point for a vignette. At least offer some reason to "justify" not having the full body shell on. I'm not sure though for the 1/12 version - as the model car is so big, the full build might simply look more impressive as a really big, cool looking race car, than something super detailed? I don't know - It will look impressive no matter how you show it!

Thanks for keeping us up to date on your progress, and keep building!

Cheers,
Nick
Cosimodo
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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 01:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

You should be happy, that looks amazing!




Quoted Text

Wow! Your paint metallic effects look great.




Quoted Text

Nice variation in metallic tones that make all the elements to pop, without being garish. Excellent!

Gabriel



Thanks guys. I am glad you like it. Fiddly but worth it!

cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
#335
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Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 01:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael,
Your engine/transaxle assembly looks absolutely amazing. I really mean that. Sure, the kit parts are state of the art, but your painting and custom blending and mixing to achieve those various metallic shades is a true game changer.

Honestly, I truly struggle with coming up with the appropriate colors for engines, transaxles, transmissions, etc. Could you post how you go about it? It would really help me get to that next level in realism that I've been struggling with. The Lotus 99t engine/transaxle is painted more towards what other builders did, then the actual car looks like in pictures.

Joel



Hi Joel,
I wish I had a formula. What I find difficult it looking at pictures of cars that are 50 years old as they are today, because they are certainly no longer original versus looking at rare colour pictures of engines from that period knowing the colour has faded or changed during development.
So trying to be accurate was not the focus. I went with a concept that Nick mentioned in one of his earlier builds about variation.
In this case I was trying MrColor metallics for the first time. They are quite sparkly(?) out of the bottle so I cut 50:50 using both semi-gloss and matt blacks to tone them down. For brighter I went the other way and added Alclad Aluminium to the Steel (that's the fuel pump for example.

I guess I am no expert on 917 engines and I looked at lot of B&W photos and variations are quite marked depending when and where so I think you are probably allowed a fair amount of artistic licence.

One last thought about photos, and you probably know this, but when I lived in Sydney I studied for a couple years the intricacies of film development in the good old analogue days. (I wasn't that good at photography but I did enjoy the chemistry of it). The range of colour films and developer chemicals meant you could get quite of range of outcomes for the same scene e.g. Fuji Velvia was very different from Kodak Ektachrome so I never think a photo is the definitive answer for what colour is.

cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 02:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Michael,

The engine sure looks good - very crisp details and colors. I like the throttle linkages and mechanicals a lot. I think those elements really push the look of realism and as a bonus, I think they're fun to build.



Ah yes, the throttle linkages! Where steel meets white metal - no contest!. The springs are steel and are slightly shorter than required so under some tension. When I connected it to the brass pivot, the white metal rod sort of went J shaped. Thinking about your work, I cut the rod off and replaced it with brass and also put in brass pins for more strength.


Quoted Text

Can you tell us about how big that engine is? a few inches/CMs long and wide? The 1/24 version is pretty big; yes, I know - twice as big as the 1/24!. Just curious as it looks big and heavy!



The engine is hefty, it feels good in the hand because there is some weight there. Also though I haven't got there it will probably cause some compression in the suspension springs, something that I have found to be an issue with the Tamiya F1 kits, because there is no weight in the plastic the springs are always at full height.
For full technical specs in empirical terms
Wgt - 9oz, length 4 1/8",(with gearbox 5") width 2 1/2", height 2"
And for a comparative scale



Quoted Text

The smaller version has holes for fuel lines and injectors on the trumpets, but no fittings. Does the 1/12 version provide fittings on top of the trumpets? With or without fittings, I'm looking forward to seeing the tubing and wiring in place.



Yes, they provided injectors (and rivets though I have decided against these - they're 0.5mm and you would need to drill out the trumpet base and the metal base). I should get the trumpets done this weekend so I can show them more clearly.


Quoted Text

The engine is so nice, it's too bad that it will be hard to see all that goes into it when it's done.

I remember you posting some pictures of the Pink Pig in a shop, with some body panels removed - I remember that because I have the same in 1/24 and thought it would be a good starting point for a vignette. At least offer some reason to "justify" not having the full body shell on. I'm not sure though for the 1/12 version - as the model car is so big, the full build might simply look more impressive as a really big, cool looking race car, than something super detailed? I don't know - It will look impressive no matter how you show it!



That picture was the driver for this build. I had not really thought about 917s at all and the only reason I saw the picture was because the key man behind the 917, Herr Piech, died last year. The picture is an amazing story in itself which if you're interested in I can expand on. I had also thought about the vignette - though in 1/12 scale it would be large!
I have seen pictures of this model completed though with the rear body work off. It does make me wonder if is difficult to fit


Quoted Text

Thanks for keeping us up to date on your progress, and keep building!

Cheers,
Nick



Thanks for your interest Nick. Two of the key things for the engine build so far, paint and the throttle, I have picked up from your work.

cheers
Michael
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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 08:25 PM UTC
Stunning. Great to see all those bit's and pieces come together.
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, May 08, 2020 - 02:07 AM UTC
Michael,
All excellent points about color accuracy. I do try to vary the colors for that needed variation, but my problem is that I usually go to far, and the end results need to be toned down as they're just to far apart, so the engine/transaxle or transmission just doesn't look right to me.

As for the good old film days, I completely agree, as I also been there, done that, and had the same results many a time.

Joel
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Friday, May 08, 2020 - 11:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Stunning. Great to see all those bit's and pieces come together.



Thanks Jesper. Your little Honda jewel was a helpful inspiration for this.

Cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
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Posted: Friday, May 08, 2020 - 11:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael,
All excellent points about color accuracy. I do try to vary the colors for that needed variation, but my problem is that I usually go to far, and the end results need to be toned down as they're just to far apart, so the engine/transaxle or transmission just doesn't look right to me.

As for the good old film days, I completely agree, as I also been there, done that, and had the same results many a time.

Joel



I usually have that reaction as well about paint. Many times I have looked at my results and thought that doesn't look right, but it grows on me. It was the same with this, individually the pieces didnt look right but assembled it works. I am not sure I would say it's accurate though. I would have to find some Swabian who worked on it

Cheers
Michael
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, May 08, 2020 - 11:33 AM UTC
Michael,
Or we can have Kit maker Network send us on a fact finding tour to the Porsche factory and museum in Germany.

Szmann
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Netherlands Antilles
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Posted: Friday, May 08, 2020 - 02:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael,
Or we can have Kit maker Network send us on a fact finding tour to the Porsche factory and museum in Germany.




Get me into the team guys! I will build a Porsche very soon and I die to know the exact shades! I'm a colour freak for sure !

Michael, everything looks so good on that engine!
Gabriel
RussellE
#306
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Friday, May 08, 2020 - 09:55 PM UTC
Amazing work on an amazing kit, Michael!

Just, Wow!
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 02:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Michael,
Or we can have Kit maker Network send us on a fact finding tour to the Porsche factory and museum in Germany.




Get me into the team guys! I will build a Porsche very soon and I die to know the exact shades! I'm a colour freak for sure !

Michael, everything looks so good on that engine!
Gabriel



Nothing could be better than an insider tour of the Porsche museum. Unfortunately, I don't think any of us will be travelling too soon

cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 02:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Amazing work on an amazing kit, Michael!

Just, Wow!



Thanks Russ!
When are you coming back to join us in the auto world? I know you have a few wingy things on the go but where the rubber meets the road is the place to be at the present

cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
#335
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Posted: Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 02:33 PM UTC
A brief update:
On the throttle linkages the steel springs won the day and pulled the rest of the mechanism out of place. It seems the stretch of spring by 1-2mm was too much for it. The choice was to replace all the attachment points with brass pins or replace those springs. I took the easy route and replace the springs with 0.2mm copper wire wound around 0.5mm brass rod. Looks the same but more stretchy!

The instructions require that you drill a lot of 0.6mm holes for the electrics and fuel hoses. If I had thought about it I should have checked with the cables after 1 hole but I didn't. It turns out 0.7 and 0.85 are you need respectively so a revisit to ream out all the holes has been required.

So a busy weekend going nowhere fast.

cheers
Michael
Stickframe
#362
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Posted: Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 02:44 PM UTC
Good save on the springs! I think the 1/24 908 had a similar problem - for such a tiny spring, it’s certainly functional, and has strong initial tension!

Good to know about the redrilling - not that it happened to you! But something to watch out for. In the long run, maybe not a bad problem as what you’ve drilled will serve as pilot holes, keeping the bigger bit where it belongs, like when working on the distributors, maybe even the fuel pump.

Don’t give up, and please keep posting your progress,

Cheers
Nick
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 02:00 AM UTC
Michael,
Nice save on the springs. As for the re-drilling of those holes, they'll go a lot faster then the original drill times. Believe me I only know that all to well.

And as Nick said, please don't stop posting updates & pictures, as this is another epic Porsche build.

Joel
Cosimodo
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Posted: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 07:32 PM UTC
Well what could be simpler than some wiring and running a few hoses on an engine. I think this has taken me probably 15 hours to get this right and make it look right. I won't trouble you with my trials and errors but I know the next one will be a lot quicker.
Anyway, Step 1 of 26 in the instructions is complete. Or on a more positive note, page 1 of 8 is complete.




Don't ask me if I got the firing order right!

Following that, some simple pipe bending. Installation soon.


cheers
Michael
AussieReg
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Posted: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 08:55 PM UTC
That looks absolutely amazing Michael, 15 hours very well spent mate!

Cheers, D
RussellE
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Posted: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 10:59 PM UTC
put some petrol in it and I bet it'd run!
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 02:00 AM UTC
Michael,
Your engine as I've posted numerous times is simply amazing. The detail is beyond anything I've seen in model form to date, and I've been around for nearly a million years. But that's only half of the equation. All that detail means nothing if one doesn't have the skills to build it as it was designed to be built. And my friend, your skill level is way beyond that. As I've said before, just add gas, oil, an hook up the battery. I'm sure that it would fire right up.

Joel

rv1963
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Posted: Friday, May 22, 2020 - 11:56 AM UTC
Outstanding work Michael, i would not want to be responsible for the install of all those plug wires one mistake and you are out of a job, lol.