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Cars: Formula1
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Hosted by Joel Willstein
1/20 Tyrrell P34 1977 Monaco GP #4
Szmann
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Posted: Sunday, May 17, 2020 - 11:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
Nice painting and staining of the exhaust headers. your engine spark plug wiring really is coming along quite nicely.


Thanks you, Joel. The wiring for the distributor it is included in the kit. Nice addition by Tamiya!

Quoted Text

The Tamiya transaxle and rear brakes do look rather good. I was never a big fan of the inboard brakes as they did tend to run much hotter then the more traditional outboard designs, often causing all sorts of braking issues.


... all sorts of baking issues and mechanics hate them. Some modern Jaguars have that and this is one of the reasons the resale price plummets or the ownership price soares...

Quoted Text


You're certainly putti8ng my Lotus pace to shame these days.

Well, it is just a favourable conjecture: The island it is still in curfew after 1800HRS and in weekends... but I need supplies - I'm almost out of 2K and gloss black - I ordered both today yet they are some three weeks away. I should start decanting Krylons and Rust-oleums sprays... but for clear I have no cheap alternative...

UPDATE
The first encounter with the decals from this kit. Just about perfect. The backing paper reads "Printed in Japan", but I am suspecting some Italian friends lended a hand... these are not your typical Tamiya decals. "Coincidentally", the colour match it is nearly perfect (that's why I used black primer after all...)


The worst Tamiya molds I ran into up to date... true, the kit backdates in '77 and have seen many re-editions. Maybe time for a molds maintenance, Tamiya?


By far the most difficult mission so far was to cleanly pick up the Ford emblems:


Can't quite believe this is an OOB Engine heads added and the wiring provisorily in place. Detailing work not finished yet and I am trying to find a nice solution for the fuel lines. I guess some fishing line it is the answer:


Pilot's seat dry-fitted, just to check the clearance / for with the cowl. No trouble. The only potential trouble is that if I want to leave the cowling removable, I need to slice through decal after application... thinking...


I am also testing alternatives for 2K in this build, as I reached to the conclusion that 2K it is an overkill. I love the results, don't take me wrong, but I've seen guys achieving similar results with X-22 and GX-100, with far less work. I couldn't find GX-100 but I have some X-22. The pilot's seat was sprayed with it. I also tried Aqua Gloss on the bottom plate - I wasn't convinced. In my next shipment I added some Testors lacquer as well, and I placed in back-order GX-100.

Gabriel
AussieReg
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Posted: Sunday, May 17, 2020 - 11:40 AM UTC
Gabriel, this is definitely a kit of highs and lows! That misaligned moulding looks more AMT than Tamiya, but the engine assembly with the fine details and extra items is wonderful!

As you said, those decals are a near perfect colour-match and look to have settled nicely.

Making great progress on this one!

Cheers, D
Szmann
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Posted: Sunday, May 17, 2020 - 12:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel, this is definitely a kit of highs and lows! That misaligned moulding looks more AMT than Tamiya, but the engine assembly with the fine details and extra items is wonderful!

I agree, and Tamiya did a half-hearted effort to improve the kit, by addition of sprue H and new decals. Unfortunately, the improvements apply only for #4, since the cowls are different.

Quoted Text


As you said, those decals are a near perfect colour-match and look to have settled nicely.
Making great progress on this one!
Cheers, D


Thanks! I had two options: either to add black to the blue, and to contaminate the whole bottle, or to use black primer and to pray the blue has enough transparency. It had it, and I am pretty happy with the result. The white from TCP it is also very nice - hard to see in pictures, but it has a pearlescent effect, without being a genuinely pearl colour - pretty much as the white you used in Carpenter's Chevy.
Thank you for checking in!

Gabriel
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Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2020 - 05:43 AM UTC
As expected, I am running out of steam here. Not only I start my job again, but, honestly, the extra effort needed for every single bad molded part in this kit undercut seriously my appetite. The parts are molded in either black or silver and make cleaning up very difficult. I needed to add an extra step: grey priming after the initial cleaning of molding issues. As most of them are to be metallized, the process has became painfully slow: clean, prime with grey, clean again, undercoat with black, metallize, seal... The results aren't all that bad though: here the engine and the transmission assembled together, but not complete yet:




The chromed parts aren't any better: full of seam lines and - oddly enough - one side looks like chromed, the other side looks like aluminium. I don't know if it is the age of the kit or the poor craftsmanship, but doesn't really matter, since I'm going to re-chrome them anyhow. I'm not going to remove the chrome - as my experiences and Damian's shown, the MS + MLT have enough grip directly to plating:


... and wherever the kit give me no issues, I create them myself! Here I tried to cut corners and painted the silver areas by brush. For the interior tub doesn't really matter, since it's going invisible, but the side pods need a better treatment. I also went too enthusiastic in sanding the blue and now it needs patchworking Well, that's me!


Gabriel
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Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2020 - 08:22 AM UTC
Hi Gabriel,

You're doing a fine job of what is in some ways, salvaging a kit. This is indeed sort of a mixed bag - with some interesting and convincing details, seam lines, sink marks, and general warping/irregular surfaces. It's too bad as although an unusual car, it could be a really nice kit if the parts we're a bit better.

I think your extra effort is paying off, in that the finish is strong enough to off-set the various problems. I get your sentiment of just wanting to get it built though. Sort of like reading a bad book - just want to find out what happens and be done with it!

OK, looking forward to see this racing oddity wrapped up with your traditionally great finish!

Take care
Nick
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Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2020 - 12:02 PM UTC
Gabriel, Nick summed it up nicely. Ditto from me!

Cheers, D
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Posted: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 - 09:30 AM UTC
A cracking start, Gabriel!

That engine looks amazing!

Don't give up yet mate! I know some kits are painful, but you can reward yourself with an easier build just for fun on the next one! (Like the old Saturday morning slammers we used to build as kids! )

PS. I need to make myself some sprue goo (TM?) too!
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Posted: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 - 12:44 PM UTC
Good work Gabriel.
The engine looks really good and the oversanding is easily fixed. (I have had a lot of practice!)
I think that people see "Tamiya" rather than "1970s' moulds" when they build these F1 kits. I would say the 40+ years and what was acceptable back then is the main issue. I have a number of their 1/12 kits, all re-issued with PE and they all have issues with fit, shape and accuracy. But hey, nobody else is really offering them these days so the only game in town.

cheers
Michael
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Posted: Thursday, May 28, 2020 - 01:06 PM UTC
Nick, I understand very well what do you mean by "salvaging" the kit. The main point is that the kit it is "salvageable", but requires tons of patience. I'm not sure if you have followed my build on Ferrari F-50, where I was shocked by the difference between the smart engineering and the horrendous molding; as I found out latter, the kit was a pirate copy of a Tamiya kit (reboxed by Revell as well). On a different scale, this is applying here too: no complain about the engineering (actually I am quite elated by it), but the many reissues of the kit have worn out the molds and Tamiya definitely need to do something about it.
As for "great finish" - I keep reserve for now, because I'm gonna try X-22 as clear for this one 🤞.

Thanks, D.! Actually I am pondering some questions related to this build here (see the Update).

Russ, thank you, mate! Yes, the engine it is nicely detailed by Tamiya, since it is mostly visible on the completed build, and it will be awkward not to take advantage of it.
I have no intention of giving up; I'm just dead slow now because I am busy at work (hurray!) and the kit is sort of demanding with my time. No quitting! As per Joel's example, I never let go to a kit, unless something totally special happens.
The sprue-goo it's the finding of the year for me this far; the only slight disappointment it is that is also shrinking a bit on large or deep fillings. For surface chips it's just perfect and this is going to be my solution for dealing with the "rubber burns" on my Lotus Europa (my next build).

Michael, thanks for "backing me up". Well, I've ran already in another Tamiya "slip" a while ago - their New Beetle! It is completely atypical for the Japanese to have such a poor kit, but, yeah, they put it out! Curbside, poor fitting of the rear window with the pillars and with the trunk, not so good tires and molded in yellow. Quite poor honestly, and it is relatively recent.

UPDATE
Well, not too much to brag about: still busy at work and the kit issued didn't fix by themselves just by sitting.

The seat belts are provided as a decal; the decal it is good, but the lack of three-dimensionality it is punishing! I have ordered some PE belt buckles, but they are still in Miami and they're not going to make it for this build:


The firewall it is also complete, and the engine ready to join the front of the car. Here I took a break (again! ) to figure out if I should or I should not go for super-detailing. I don't know if you can make it in the picture, but the brake fluid bottle and the other one (I don't know what it is) have hose connectors but nothing related to them in the instructions. (?)

If I don't go for super detailing, I feel like a let a chance going begging; if I go, I feel like I'm overdoing it and I'll prolong this build even more. The same goes for the engine in regard of the fuel injection system...
The reason why I didn't dry-fitted the engine yet (although I'm very eager to do so), it is because the clipping system seems to be irreversible without damage (I also lost somehow the provided screw, but that is not an issue, I have lots of spares)



Thank you for following up, and I certainly hope in a more productive week-end, although the week-end it will be the first one without curfew in SXM and I really itching to take my Jimny for a ride...

Gabriel
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Posted: Sunday, May 31, 2020 - 06:40 AM UTC
Update on the run

I was called to attend an important thing at work today, and I have no clue what time I'm going to be back. I've seen guys you did nice progress on your builds, - just no time to post to everyone, as your effort deserves. I apologize.

Some of the suspension / steering parts of the front right side assembly:


They form actually only small sub-assemblies:


Because more parts are involved, and this isn't all:


Here the assembly complete - I know it's not looking spectacular because of the similar colors, but it is bursting with detail:




Playing Frankenstein:


The cranial fracture of Mr. Depailler exposed:


Ups, brains!


The engine added to the chassis: I know most of the modelers that complete this kit before me complained about loose fit; I beg to differ:


Underside view: the frame before adding the stiffener bars:


And about that was it, I'm going to work.

Guys, take care, especially my American friends.

Gabriel
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Posted: Sunday, May 31, 2020 - 10:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Update on the run

I was called to attend an important thing at work today, and I have no clue what time I'm going to be back. I've seen guys you did nice progress on your builds, - just no time to post to everyone, as your effort deserves. I apologize.



At least you were able to post the progress pics, Gabriel

Looking good!
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Posted: Wednesday, June 03, 2020 - 07:03 AM UTC
Looks great Gabriel. Love the discoloration, of the pipes.
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Posted: Wednesday, June 03, 2020 - 11:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

At least you were able to post the progress pics, Gabriel

Looking good!


Thanks, Russ! Unfortunately it seems I bogged down completely... for the time being.

Jesper, thanks! Still experiencing with the formula, I shoul dhave ordered some transparent green as well. Or I might mix myself some.

Gabriel
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Posted: Wednesday, June 03, 2020 - 11:59 AM UTC
Very nice progress Gabriel. This kit seems to have some highs and lows with regard to fit and detail, but you are making it work very nicely!

Cheers, D
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Posted: Friday, June 05, 2020 - 12:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Very nice progress Gabriel. This kit seems to have some highs and lows with regard to fit and detail, but you are making it work very nicely!

Cheers, D



Thanks, D.! Yes, the kit is somewhat funny - I never worked on a kit that is so good and so bad in the same time

Gabriel
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Posted: Saturday, June 06, 2020 - 04:12 PM UTC
Hi Gabriel -

Good show for sticking with this mixed-bag of a kit. I completely agree with your observation about the unpleasant mix of really nice, highly detailed parts, and others -that are poorly molded and clunky. I'm sure you'll pull it all together in the end - but, getting across the finish line ain't easy!

Stick with it!

Cheers
Nick

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Posted: Friday, August 28, 2020 - 02:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Gabriel -

Good show for sticking with this mixed-bag of a kit. I completely agree with your observation about the unpleasant mix of really nice, highly detailed parts, and others -that are poorly molded and clunky. I'm sure you'll pull it all together in the end - but, getting across the finish line ain't easy!

Stick with it!

Cheers
Nick




Nick, you were totally spot on in June! After I did the first front dual steering / suspension, I just lost all steam - over-complicated, fiddly and delicate. Yet the modelism is all about that - and here I am, back into the fight.

UPDATE - Three Months Later...

The second dual steering mechanism finally done. I know, it doesn't look like much, but there is a lot of small steps to get these done:


I had hard time deciding if to leave open or to close the front cowling. However, I couldn't close it before finishing the transverse steering and the time left said differently. Eventually I tacked the cowling in place with white glue to apply the decals; tomorrow I will slice the decals with a fresh blade and separate again the parts to clear coat them and to continue with the assembly of the internal parts:


I have to commend again the quality of decals in this kit - the one over the fairing laid down nice and easy from the first attempt. On the flat surfaces the decals just "blend in". I still applied some MicroSol to make sure they will sink into the join to give me a clear cutting line.
I think my camera's white balance is off - the white paint on the cowling looks slightly yellow in the pictures: nothing like that in reality:


Another complicated business is this wing assembly here. The wing itself and the stabilizers are quite easy to line up, but the support is saddling the transmission casing and has to be assembled from the sides and lined up with the wing in the same time. The two supports parallelism is ensured by three spacers - a wide one down, also connecting with the transmission case and two bars at the top. I glued the lower spacer / mount on one support, and the bar supports on the other support. I made sure the alignment is correct by using the wing as template. That will ensure the priming and painting is possible from all angles, and also will simplify the final assembly, having to deal with 3 parts instead of 6:


Next steps is to paint and install all radiators - they are 6 I believe, the wheels and all the small bits and bobs from the cockpit.

No error allowed!

Gabriel
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Posted: Saturday, August 29, 2020 - 01:40 AM UTC
Gabriel,
Just not sure how I lost track of your Tyrrell P34 build. But I just read through the whole build to date to catch up on all that I've missed, and I've missed quite a lot. Again, my apologies for not keeping up to date, especially on a F1 race car.

I'm really glad that for at least the time being leaving the world of 2K and coming back to the more traditional clear gloss coats. Personally, I prefer lacquer, and use Mr. Color C46. Their GX100 is enamel based, and every mention of it I've ever seen has been 100% positive. Only their Super Gloss III is in the same class. Neither can I get here in the states as yet. I still also use Testors Glosscoat and Dullcoat, and after nearly 50 years have never let me down yet.

Believe me that I feel your frustration about older Tamiya kits, especially their F1 cars in both scales. Tamiya really tried to push their envelope to the cutting edge, and back when these kits came out from the 1980s and onward we felt like they had, but time has certainly caught up with them to some degree. Fit and fidelity to scale doesn't always meet our expectations of what a Tamiya kit should be. But you've more then risen to the challenge, and have done a truly outstanding job to date.

The engine looks darn near perfect as your wiring and detail painting really makes quite a difference. The duel front suspension once painted will surely look more then convincing.

The Clear Gloss will darken the Blue and yet brighten the White, not sure why, but it always does.

I'm not a fan of the older Tamiya decals which are generally on the to thick side, but you really made them behave quite well.

As you mentioned, the seatbelt is a decal, looks excellent for what it is, but looses that dimensional look just because it's a decal. An option to keep in your modeler's box for the next time is to try and cut them out with the backing paper, then glue them into place that way. I've never really mastered that technique to my satisfaction, but running a black fine point magic marker will hide the edge and give you that sense of separation.

Like you and just about all of us car guys, rubbing through the paint is a battle I fight with every build these days. So, don't let it give you any needless concerns.

Those rear wings are all a pain in the butt to assemble and correctly align. The one on the Lotus 99t nearly drove me to drink.

Looking forward to your next update. And may none of this year's Hurricane's come your way.

Joel


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Posted: Sunday, August 30, 2020 - 12:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
Just not sure how I lost track of your Tyrrell P34 build. But I just read through the whole build to date to catch up on all that I've missed, and I've missed quite a lot. Again, my apologies for not keeping up to date, especially on a F1 race car.


No worries whatsoever, Joel, I've been myself confusing with 4 builds in criss cross all this time.


Quoted Text

I'm really glad that for at least the time being leaving the world of 2K and coming back to the more traditional clear gloss coats. Personally, I prefer lacquer, and use Mr. Color C46. Their GX100 is enamel based, and every mention of it I've ever seen has been 100% positive. Only their Super Gloss III is in the same class. Neither can I get here in the states as yet. I still also use Testors Glosscoat and Dullcoat, and after nearly 50 years have never let me down yet.


Ironically, after I bought a couple of alternatives to 2K, I ran into a professional resin that has it all: the shine and resistance of a 2K and a lacquer's workability. The Lotus build has a quite exhaustive assessment of it. I just sprayed it again today on the Tyrell and... there is nothing to sand! (see update infra)

Quoted Text


Believe me that I feel your frustration about older Tamiya kits, especially their F1 cars in both scales. Tamiya really tried to push their envelope to the cutting edge, and back when these kits came out from the 1980s and onward we felt like they had, but time has certainly caught up with them to some degree. Fit and fidelity to scale doesn't always meet our expectations of what a Tamiya kit should be. But you've more then risen to the challenge, and have done a truly outstanding job to date.


Yes - I agree. I'm not that annoyed that I have to work on a difficult model - I'm quite used to it - I am more frustrated that they can do so much better (also see update)

Quoted Text

The engine looks darn near perfect as your wiring and detail painting really makes quite a difference. The duel front suspension once painted will surely look more then convincing.


Coming from a master of detail and a connoisseur such as yourself, it's a great honor. It humbles me - thank you!


Quoted Text

The Clear Gloss will darken the Blue and yet brighten the White, not sure why, but it always does.


I agree - the gloss clear is an excellent contrast enhancer, while the matte clear has the opposite effect.


Quoted Text

I'm not a fan of the older Tamiya decals which are generally on the to thick side, but you really made them behave quite well.


These are 2nd generation Tamiya. For a while I was suspecting that they were printed by Cartograf, but then I noticed they are more glossy than the Italian ones. Good stuff!


Quoted Text

As you mentioned, the seatbelt is a decal, looks excellent for what it is, but looses that dimensional look just because it's a decal. An option to keep in your modeler's box for the next time is to try and cut them out with the backing paper, then glue them into place that way. I've never really mastered that technique to my satisfaction, but running a black fine point magic marker will hide the edge and give you that sense of separation.


I would have even prefered the molded on belts by AMT! Meanwhile I bought some Gofer Racing PE buckles + stripe but - naturally - they came too late for this build


Quoted Text

Like you and just about all of us car guys, rubbing through the paint is a battle I fight with every build these days. So, don't let it give you any needless concerns.


Yeah, it happens again and again - I guess there is no cure for it


Quoted Text

Those rear wings are all a pain in the butt to assemble and correctly align. The one on the Lotus 99t nearly drove me to drink.

Apparently my trick worked on that assembly - I stick with my coffee


Quoted Text

Looking forward to your next update. And may none of this year's Hurricane's come your way.

Joel


This is going to be one of the most active seasons in decades. It reached L letter already. Laura passed SXM while still a tropical storm and brought here some heavy rain, but when it made landfall in Hispaniola killed 22 people (18 in Haiti and 4 in RD). Quite used to the gamble by now

UPDATE - Almost finished doesn't mean finished
My first worry it was now to slice perfectly the decals to remove back the cowlings for clear coating while working to complete the interior. Also I would like the front cowling to remain detachable after all. I sharpened my SS blade on the nail file and the cut was surgical:


Installing the dual steering mechanism / suspension tested again my problem solving abilities, but eventually turned out OK:


Front winglets painted and glued; decals applied:


Decals applied on the rear wing as well. My biggest enemy wasn't the decals, but the paint. Sprayed with only 12 hours before, the paint was barely dry to handle; sanding excluded; errors not allowed:


Wheels sprayed with MM Gunmetal non-buffable; the paint looks fantastic under the clear; unfortunately my last bottle is nearly empty and the brand died. I called my Canadian Connection - finished I could have been a great paint for my MB 300SL


All parts sprayed with 2K. You were correct, Joel! Now the white looks like white


Wheels assembled. If the front tires are almost easy to sand and clean, the rear tires are almost impossible to do so. They are very different of the small ones, very spongy, tacky and thin. Probably from the kit upgrade; however - poor quality. Tamiya strikes again!


The resin dry to touch in only 6 hrs. The upside down tub was a side test: the insides were painted by hand, with matte craft acrylic. Under resin looks totally glossy. Good stuff!


Radiators painted with MS Surfacer 1500 for semi-gloss and added; the top filler, electric boxes, and the instruments frame also added at this step:


Bottom and body mated together. The front end clicked in. In the rear the fit was more loose, and I had to undo one of the radiators, whose alignment tab was interfering with the AAA battery box. And this is my harsh criticism to this kit: why - since it was partially re-tooled, they didn't replace the motorized version of the bottom plate. It ruin my chances on ranking high on TCC Contest already and could have been catastrophic if the radiator would have been completely dry. I was lucky the glue wasn't set yet!


Last few remaining pieces were primed and hopefully tomorrow I can call the build finished.

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Monday, August 31, 2020 - 03:45 PM UTC
Probably Last UPDATE

I managed to finish the model today. I had some problems with the bottom plate springing loose a couple of times and with the radiator with the tab removed falling once, but I didn't lost my nerve and here she is:









The sproo goo sinks after all when hot primer applied over - it is still an excellent "product" for different application. In my case, the volume required to fill the gap was just too big!










And, yes, I kept the cowling removable to allow the displaying of
the interesting steering mechanism.

Gabriel
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Posted: Monday, August 31, 2020 - 06:21 PM UTC
amazing job, my friend, you really nailed this one. Are the wheels turnable?
Szmann
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Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 - 12:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

amazing job, my friend, you really nailed this one. Are the wheels turnable?



Thank you, Jesper, for your feedback. Yes, Tamiya give you the opportunity to have the wheels steerable, but the joint is quite delicate and the wheel + tire assembly quite heavy. The wheels have the tendency to steer freely wherever they please. I glued them in place for extra safety, since this model has to sail to Canada as well.

Gabriel
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Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 - 01:00 PM UTC
Haha! you win Gabriel! you beat what is not an easy kit! lol- very nice work all around on a tedious kit -

Stay well,

cheers
Nick
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Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 - 01:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Haha! you win Gabriel! you beat what is not an easy kit! lol- very nice work all around on a tedious kit -

Stay well,

cheers
Nick



I managed somehow to win, yes. The kit's difficulty it seemed average to me; it was just the lack of familiarity with F1 and the bad timing that slow it down too much.
I still do believe it's a very ugly car - but interesting as well.

Gabriel