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A Romanian Legend: Dacia 1100 dual build
Dixon66
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 12:39 AM UTC
With roll cage designs, triangles are your friends. Looking good so far, Gabriel.
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 01:34 AM UTC
Gabriel,
You've peaked my curiosity 10 fold for sure with your super detailing effort. I'll certainly be following your detailing with much interest.

One thing you might want to research a little is the Ford Escort RS 1800 Rally cars. It's a basic type tin top street car that was converted into a winning rally car.

Here's a link to one such build by a friend of mine that specializes in Rally cars of days past.

https://race-car-models.proboards.com/thread/480/ford-rs1800

Joel
AussieReg
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 01:49 AM UTC
You are well on your way with the scratch-mods Gabriel, this will look great with the completed cage and a few wires and tubes running around. The twin-fan assembly especially really fits in beautifully.

Cheers, D
Szmann
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 03:24 AM UTC

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well, I'm no racing car expert, but that looks like some darn fine model making to me, Gabriel


Russ, I'm far of knowing what I am doing, but seems like fun. I'm very curious myself where I'm going to reach with this build


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With roll cage designs, triangles are your friends. Looking good so far, Gabriel


Thanks, David! Yes, I noticed when building the NASCARS. It's all triangular and "Y" connections. Makes sense structurally. I still need to fit the dash and other interior parts from the kit so I can measure the clearances.


Quoted Text

Here's a link to one such build by a friend of mine that specializes in Rally cars of days past.


Thank, you Joel! That is another insane level of modelling - I not even have the tools to cut a styrene circle . Yes, that Ford it's a replica now, everything being modified from the body shape, to the engine water inlet... suspension and all... just mind blowing level. I'm by no means capable of such, but I found it very inspirational.


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You are well on your way with the scratch-mods Gabriel, this will look great with the completed cage and a few wires and tubes running around. The twin-fan assembly especially really fits in beautifully.

Cheers, D


Damian, that was a fluke. The cooling unit I have it laying around since my Armorama days - maybe 4, maybe 5 years old. Next I'm gonna trim and paint the door inserts, add the dash, pedals and shifter and then take my measurements for the roll cage. I already feel I exceeded my real scratch-build abilities

Gabriel
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 05:37 AM UTC
Gabriel,
We all thought that JC had a lathe, and all sorts of miniature power tools. Truth be told that he doesn't own any modeling power tools. Literally, everything is done by hand.

When he needs a circle cut out or a round disc, he just uses one of those cheap plastic circle templates and uses one slightly larger dia. then needed. Then he actually sands it by hand to the proper shape. Almost all those chassis detail parts are just Evergreen and Plastic strut.

Now if it was me, I'd own every modeling tool known to man, and still couldn't do a damn thing with them.

Joel
Stickframe
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 01:34 PM UTC
HI Gabriel,

Nice work on the cars, I like the spoon handle bracing - the look the part! The different color on the rally transaxle looks great! For what it's worth, I don't have any out of the ordinary tools. This lack of technology can be a bit of a headache, but it hasn't stopped me so far. For ease, I have three pin vices, set up with the bits I use the most.

For roll cages, I use the rule of thumb that David shared - triangles supporting the overall structure. Somewhere along the way, I figured out that using singular or compound angles (cut opposing angles into your scale tubing) for connections is more effective than butt joints, and then, I realized I could use a rat tail file to contour the respective angles to get a nice and snug fit against another piece of round tubing.

If you take a look into my off road race truck or the recent F150 posts you'll see this method used repeatedly. They're stable when they're done too - I hate delicate rolling chassis, as it's often a bit of a wrestling match to get the body on and off, and I don't want them to fall apart.

Enjoy the scratch work - it seems to open the door to all sorts of modifications.

Looking forward to your updates.

Cheers
Nick
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2020 - 12:54 PM UTC
Gabriel,
The roll cage looks good though I have one thought on your plastic spoon conversion. It looks too heavy for a rally car, especially a lower powered one like the Gordini/Dacia. It looks more side impact protection you might see in a track car. Most light weight cars of that vintage just had the tubes bolted to the floor. Nice work though and I guess it wont be that visible when the body is on.

cheers
Michael
Szmann
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Posted: Friday, May 01, 2020 - 07:51 AM UTC

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Now if it was me, I'd own every modeling tool known to man, and still couldn't do a damn thing with them.

Joel



Joel, we are two of a kind. I have a Dremel and a Proxxon, but they are rust fodder - I barely touch them

Nick, it's your build that inspired me. I didn't manage such neat joints as you did, bcause I ran into other technical issues (see the update)


Quoted Text

Gabriel,
The roll cage looks good though I have one thought on your plastic spoon conversion. It looks too heavy for a rally car, especially a lower powered one like the Gordini/Dacia. It looks more side impact protection you might see in a track car. Most light weight cars of that vintage just had the tubes bolted to the floor. Nice work though and I guess it wont be that visible when the body is on.
cheers
Michael


Michael, I think you're right; I scrapped already the plastic spoon reinforcements, but from another reason (see the update).

UPDATE
First and very annoying, I went nuts looking for the pedals. (slapping my forehead!) They are molded on the vinyl sprue, of course. I scratched my three pedals from stretched sprue and parts tags, also from the sprue. I installed the painted already interior elements and added some random wires or tubes. Don't you dare ask me what they are doing in there! Also the pilot's seat was ready - the other one it's still in painting process.
Then I went ahead to install the back of the roll cage just to discover that the thermoplastic from the spoons and the plastic from q-tips tubes are not reacting to TET. I tried to bond them with Loctite Attack Super Glue, but the strength of the bond it's ridiculously weak. I had to scrap all my plans and re-think the strategy.
I don't have any plastruct tubes or whatever dedicated product, and I went again scavenging my pile of sprue junk. I found a T member and drilled to the floor; the connection there is rock solid. with the lateral members I didn't manage very well, but, again, applying 5-6 times TET the ends of the sprues are pretty solidly welded together. The look of the joint it's still ugly, but I'm distilling right now some Damian licensed goo. If my shabby plan doesn't work, you all know whom I'm going to hold publicly responsible


There is still access to the rear bench place to add the fire extinguisher and the air inlet - I have the inlet, I don't have the tube yet:


Measure twice, cut once. The maximum weight of the roll cage it's exactly touching the roof. I haven'r decided yet if I'm gonna leave the shell removable - I will like to, but the rear end it's some kind of weak. If I will glue the shell to the body, then the whole assembly i'ts gonna be rock solid:


My ugly joints from the roll cage are not to be seen after final assembly, but I want to make them the proper way... waiting for the goo to brew...


Gabriel
Stickframe
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Posted: Friday, May 01, 2020 - 07:27 PM UTC
Hi Gabriel - Bravo! looking good - especially considering your crafty us of materials!

You're almost there - is it possible to add two more "legs"? from the roof top "loop" to just behind the front wheel openings?

A common roll cage might have six main "legs" - two diagonal, running from the main loop toward the rear, two essentially vertical behind the driver and co-driver's seats, and two in front, connected to the main loop and the chassis, running generally parallel to the front window. Without trying to get too confusing, the front "legs" generally run vertically upward from the floor behind the wheel openings to the top of the dashboard, then slope back, parallel to the window and up to the loop.

Or not! in any case, the car looks great -

Cheers
Nick
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Posted: Friday, May 01, 2020 - 09:43 PM UTC
That is some nice scratch building, my friend. I have No doubt, the roll cage will look the part. A big middle finger to Heller's vinyl roll cage
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, May 02, 2020 - 01:00 AM UTC
Gabriel
Interesting scratch building for sure. Just remember that it's the final product and how it looks that counts. And as you said, with the shell on, the roll cage top isn't seen.

Joel
Szmann
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Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 11:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Gabriel - Bravo! looking good - especially considering your crafty us of materials!

You're almost there - is it possible to add two more "legs"? from the roof top "loop" to just behind the front wheel openings?

A common roll cage might have six main "legs" - two diagonal, running from the main loop toward the rear, two essentially vertical behind the driver and co-driver's seats, and two in front, connected to the main loop and the chassis, running generally parallel to the front window. Without trying to get too confusing, the front "legs" generally run vertically upward from the floor behind the wheel openings to the top of the dashboard, then slope back, parallel to the window and up to the loop.

Or not! in any case, the car looks great -

Cheers
Nick



Nick, thank you for suggestions. Indeed, that was the plan initially, to make the six "legs" but the dashboard it's half molded to the body, half glued to the body - another Heller moment of brilliance. To keep the body removable and to make my life easier, I need to bring the front "legs" in front of the inner wheels arches - see the update.


Quoted Text

That is some nice scratch building, my friend. I have No doubt, the roll cage will look the part. A big middle finger to Heller's vinyl roll cage


Haha! Jesper, thanks for support. Yesh, Heller deserves it and I'm still working on it...


Quoted Text

Gabriel
Interesting scratch building for sure. Just remember that it's the final product and how it looks that counts. And as you said, with the shell on, the roll cage top isn't seen.

Joel


Thanks, Joel. To be honest, I was expecting more of a fight. The scratch build went pretty much easy. Now, I'm not claiming I've done big engineering feat, but for a first try at scratch building, I guess isn't horrible

UPDATE
Another YT script finished - the last one for now, and some more scratch in between.
The co-pilot seat was added. I have advanced to this stage with my roll cage - the fire extinguisher and the CB radio still missing in action. Again I used sprue gates from the trees trying to mix and match diameters. The grey sprue it's from Taniya Ducati, the green one it's from Zvezda GAZ AAA, and the white one it's from AMT/Ertl NASCAR


Still missing here the side pillars. As with the central one, I'm going to drill through the floor just behind the seats and connect with the slanted lateral bar. From there I need another length to the middle of the upper frame. I cannot make the side pillars from one piece because the lack of clearance.


It would have been better if I could get the front "legs" of the cage more sideways for better visibility, but that would have meant to complicate too much the "roof" of the cage"


Other than that, the body fits with very little tolerance to the cage, almost "like a glove":


Still the most visible part will be at the bach and there it looks quite OK


Damian's snake oil - sprue goo that is - worked like a charm this time. I had 1 quarter TET bottle in which I crammed soft Zvezda plastic, until there was enough glue to cover barely the sprue bits. After 6 hours time, all the plastic melted to a gear oil consistency goo. It is easy to apply, can be used with the capillary effect or just like a dissolved putty, If you need it thicker, just keep your loaded applicator a few seconds into the air - it start thickening right away. It works as well as medium drying time glue for styrene. It does shrink a little, but can be re-applied until the crack to fill it's full. It can be shaped or smoothed with TET. It can be sanded, painted and drilled just as regular plastic - it does not chip away. I used here as a filler to cover the ugly butt end fit on my roll cage and also as a slow setting glue. Perfect for that application. Thanks, D!

Gabriel
AussieReg
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Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 12:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Damian's snake oil - Thanks, D!

Gabriel



Gabriel, I'm just the messenger mate, but I'm really happy to see that the message is spreading! It really is an easy and versatile solution (see what I did there) to a lot of fine filling and cementing difficulties.

You are doing a great job on this one mate, really nice work on the roll cage and the extra details and modification on the interior are coming together beautifully.

Cheers, D
Dixon66
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Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 01:24 PM UTC
I'm liking your cage work Gabriel. It is looking the part quite well.
Stickframe
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Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 03:53 PM UTC
Very creative and resourceful! looks great!

Nick
RussellE
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Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 11:53 PM UTC
amazing how all that fits inside that tiny body shell Gabriel!

Nice work with D's snake oil!
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, May 04, 2020 - 01:55 AM UTC
Gabriel,
Nice job on the cage. Once the body is on and painted, it will look as though it was part of the molded kit.

Joel
Cosimodo
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Posted: Monday, May 04, 2020 - 01:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
Nice job on the cage. Once the body is on and painted, it will look as though it was part of the molded kit.

Joel



Ditto this. It looks really good.

cheers
Michael
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Posted: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 - 02:51 AM UTC
Nice scratched interior details.




Szmann
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Posted: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 - 09:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You are doing a great job on this one mate, really nice work on the roll cage and the extra details and modification on the interior are coming together beautifully.

Cheers, D


Thanks, D! Somehow I managed to put two sticks together, yes


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I'm liking your cage work Gabriel. It is looking the part quite well.


Thanks, David! I find it a little out of scale as bars's thickness, but these were the thinnest sprue runners I could harvest.


Quoted Text

Very creative and resourceful! looks great!


Thank you, Nick! I was actually avoiding scratch-building as much as I could. All the interior parts are spares, and the roll cage frames are as I found them on the sprues...


Quoted Text

amazing how all that fits inside that tiny body shell Gabriel!
Nice work with D's snake oil!


Thanks, Russ! Yeah, this car is bigger from inside than from outside And Damian's snake oil saved the game here, because all those butt end fits would have been shabby and horrible looking without it


Quoted Text

Gabriel,
Nice job on the cage. Once the body is on and painted, it will look as though it was part of the molded kit.


Thanks, Joel. It might be a little overdone I guess for a car of that vintage, but I found it fun to build and I went ahead...


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Ditto this. It looks really good.


Thanks, Michael. Yeah, somehow it's coming together...


Quoted Text

Nice scratched interior details.


KSO, you beat me already with three car lengths with your Covid diorama !

UPDATE
Finally, the roll cage finished and painted. I might polish off the "weld lines" and some joints, but the shape it's done and final. The middle "legs" have to be composite, otherwise couldn't fit around the seats. The lower leg it's drilled from the bottom and the upper one connected with the roof's weld, each one at different relative angles to the origin and to the weld point.


I know the sprue bits I used are inconsistent as diameter and a little over-scale; that's why I purposely painted them in flat black, to achieve a relative "thinning" effect and hide the imperfections:


The interior of the body painted with flat black, and the door cards added. I should have done a much better job with these cut-out edges well, I painted also the recessed areas with matte black, to simulate the "emptiness" of the bare doors;


Another dry-fit, this time with the door cards on - perfect! The cage isn't touching anywhere, with just 1/2mm to spare in the tight spots:

Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 - 10:47 AM UTC
Gabriel,
I'd say she's looking quite good, and with the body on, the interior as with all tin tops kind of takes a back seat to the stars of the show: the body shell, wheels/tires.

Joel
Szmann
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Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 - 12:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
I'd say she's looking quite good, and with the body on, the interior as with all tin tops kind of takes a back seat to the stars of the show: the body shell, wheels/tires.

Joel



Thanks, Joel. Yes, the racing version still needs the decals to complete the livery, but the shipping started moving in my Island as well - today I had the first pick-up order but I missed it for being too late. I'm gonna order some decal paper with the first modelling supplies order.

UPDATE
All this time I fiddled with the roll cage on the Rough Lady, I actually built in advance the City Lady, as a 3D model to calculate the clearances - especially with that weird dash board assembly.
The fit is generally good, but the engineering it's dumb. One suppose to finish the build by attaching the rear end by butt fit. That end "cap" suppose to glue to the floor, hold together the laterally tugging rear quarter panels and to support the engine hood by butt joints. Superb, Heller, superb!


Prior to fitting the rear panel, I installed the lateral windows and he dash. Again, the laterals are fitted from inside, the rear window and the windshield are to be fitted from outside


Now , the customer insisted in an openable engine hood and that's the best he can get. The hinges are bad and the transverse piece under the rear window it's longer than should be and it curves upwards when the body it's closed. Now it's way to late in the building to fix the problem. On the rally version, I'm not gonna put the hinges:


The fringe benefits of 2K. On the left side joint, I had some glue mixed with paint and melted plastic oozing under the masking tape. The 2K it's so hard, that the toxic mixture barely affected the surface and never reached the paint. 2 minutes sanding with 2000 grit removed any trace...


Beautiful over-scale and mismatching hinges and a pretty nice engine compartment after all...


Gabriel
AussieReg
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Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 - 12:49 PM UTC
Looking good Gabriel, but a pity that the opening engine cover isn't quite a neat fit.


Quoted Text

Prior to fitting the rear panel, I installed the lateral windows and he dash. Again, the laterals are fitted from inside, the rear window and the windshield are to be fitted from outside



Sounds accurate to the 1:1 version!

Cheers, D
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 01:47 AM UTC
Gabriel,
The customer's car is turning out quite nicely. He should be more then happy. Of course since he most likely isn't a modeler, hasn't a clue of just how much work and effort you put into this build to get it to this level.

Joel
RussellE
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Posted: Friday, May 08, 2020 - 09:59 PM UTC
Gabriel, I hope your customer is paying you handsomely, for the amount of blood sweat and tears going into these builds is phenomenal!