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Cars: Muscle Cars
60's & 70's Classics
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
AMT new tool Chrysler 300C (commissioned)
Szmann
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Posted: Saturday, February 09, 2019 - 05:19 AM UTC
Joel and Jesper: thank you very much for your valuable suggestions, gentlemen! They are both good, but none applicable entirely in my case. Jesper, the base coat is acrylic (luckily I saved some mixture) and acrylic washes are "dangerous". Joel, your suggestion betrays a wealth of modeling experience, and is very smart one but, remember, in my story, the car just came from the dealer and the little Luigi sees it for the first time. Yet none of you wasted his time trying to help me - thank you very much indeed. My resolve was a mixture of your suggestions (see infra).

UPDATE - Charlie is not alone

First on the seats: I applied a filter as Joel suggested, but a "rejuvenation filter", as Jesper suggested. I mixed the base color with satin clear and IPA to create a filter and sprayed it selectively over the benches. I am very pleased with the result, and I think I have to fill in for a "new patent": oil wash pre-shading technique. The front bench needs another filter application to my taste, but the rear bench looked exactly as I wanted to from the beginning:



Yet another experiment: using xylene as enamel thinner. That answers pretty much to my secret desire to poison myself, but with benefits in modeling world. A while ago I discarded the paint thinner for lacquer thinner. It was a good step, but I'm never happy kind of lunatic. And I tried acetone. This one worked too; the acetone is a better thinner than the lacquer thinner but very "dry" and never gave me impeccable results with gloss colors because has a tendency to dry too fast. I bought some xylene some weeks ago to experiment as reducer for urethane (2K), but I noticed last night that the sticker claims: "thins lacquers and urethanes" and that was the spark (in my experience whatever goes for lacquers, goes for enamels too!). So I tried it! I still have a big smile on my creepy face: is slightly better than anything else: stronger than lacquer thinner, milder and "greasier" than acetone! Aha-aha! I have a new favorite princess! The gloss black base coat for Alclad went so smooth, that I achieved probably the best chrome ever - very hard to tell from the one on the plated parts:


Encouraged, I have used it for almond enamel on the tire inserts. And look at that! (White Challende anyone? ):


And now the bad news: I went to clear coat my hood that was left behind... and there was something in the resin (lint, a dirty mixing cup, air bubbles?). Not sure what was it, but this is the result:


The bad thing about the resin is that the process is irreversible. One cannot just stop mid-way. So I had to carry on!
So I had to carry on. In this occasion I have noticed and the very first resin run

I have applied the side badges on the body as well, and I thought it will be nice to cover them in resin as well. Just it doesn't work like that!

2K doesn't like the "intermediary" or semi-wet coats. With 2K one has to be a real man: to do it or else! Eventually it went good, but the trunk is as bad looking as the hood (from sympathy to each other I guess):


So, Charlie, you are not alone, my friend! Let us do some sanding while the fellows read the thread, shall we?

P.S. The damage is superficial on the body, so no real worries - 2K stands sanding as a champ!

Gabriel
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, February 10, 2019 - 03:02 AM UTC
Gabriel,
As you know, I've never gotten up the nerve to even try 2K as yet, so I rely on you for all my info. When it shoots correctly, the finish is truly amazing. and requires way less polishing then lacquer based clear Glosses.

It's the issues as you had with the trunk and the "Bubbles ?" on the hood that most concern me. Since it dries so hard, I would think that it's harder to sand & rub out. And do you need to then air brush on another finish layer, or just polish and wax it out?

Joel
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Posted: Sunday, February 10, 2019 - 04:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
As you know, I've never gotten up the nerve to even try 2K as yet, so I rely on you for all my info. When it shoots correctly, the finish is truly amazing. and requires way less polishing then lacquer based clear Glosses.

It's the issues as you had with the trunk and the "Bubbles ?" on the hood that most concern me. Since it dries so hard, I would think that it's harder to sand & rub out. And do you need to then air brush on another finish layer, or just polish and wax it out?

Joel


Joel, thank you for trusting my experiments' results. Today, with the 2K ready to handle, I have inspected the "damage". No, they are not the air bubbles as I suspected and feared, they are cross-contamination with clear acrylic. By mistake I forgot to clean the mixing brush with which I have mixed the filter for the chairs. The strong solvent from the resin made short job from the dried acrylic in the brush's hair. Unfortunately, I haven't seen it in time, and once I started I couldn't stop it!

The solution is to polish it with grit 220 sponge (!) - is the only one that "bites" thru resin, then I follow "cursus honorum", with 2000 and 3000 grit. The coats stick very well to each other for what I can tell.

Again, much recommended - the only faults so far are from my own mistakes.

UPDATE - Spinning in red circles and alien blood experiment

The first thing I wanted to do is to finish with the wheels, so I don't have to expose the chassis to handling anymore. But wasn't easy as expected. I followed my idea to print my own decals and cut them with my plotter. First impediment: I cannot synchronize perfectly the edges between the two devices. I was expecting it. I printed a large red rectangle in the "suspected" area in which the plotter will cut and cut it. Again, because the circle radius is so small (5.6mm) and the surface soft, the plotter had trouble in cutting a neat edge. I repeated with plain writing paper and I soaked the resulted "spacers" in Tamiya x-22 to plastify and glue them in the same time. It worked. Another coat f X-22 sealed them in place and a coat of Micro Gloss completed the job. Much neater than my previous two attempts, but still not perfect. I decided to apply a wash which I find now a little to heavy. It may be I'm gonna wipe some of it with thinner.


Then I focused in the remaining few details: te radiator shroud and the radiator. The radiator was painted with semi-gloss black on the frame and matte off-black on the fins (for some reason the fins detail is not visible in this picture, but it is there, I'm sure):


On the other side, I added the horns, painted with some dulled silver:


Two thumbs down for AMT here and one for me: the radiator molding is rather bad and I had to delete the overflow pipe and the radiator and the shroud are a poor match - the locator pins are poorly designed and they don't "click". On my turn, I neglected the ejector pin marks on the shroud and I guess I can qualify as "lazy modeler".

The battery received a black base coat. The raised detail was picked out with silver marker, then various details with yellow, black and red (over the silver):


Although it wasn't "in line" for today job list, I was dying to try the tinted Pledge technique. I have dissolved a blob of esmerald green acrylic in my resealable jar with Pledge floor protect. The resulting color looks unreal and far from yummy...:


... but it works! The window in the left was dipped in "Alien blood". The tint cannot be seen, but the windshield look so much thinner and clearer than its opposite number on the right:

I am thinking to administer a second bath, just to achieve some more tint to the "glasses"

After I finished fooling around with plotters, jamming printers and I have cleaned the blood from my hands, I get on to serious business: adding the chassis to the bottom pan. Watch her good now, because she's not allowed to show her indecent parts anymore


Before I start bragging about how happy I am with the interior, I need to show you the firewall. Again. thumb down for me: I didn't do the wiring as D. and Jesper and Joel do: I just picked them with a black marker. They're not going to be seen anyhow! (Yeah, right!)
Another mistake is not cleaning the seam line on the brake booster - that one has to be addressed. But something more intriguing is hiding there: the hole in the blower has no piece being attached there.
Checking my references, I've seen that is a thick hose going from there to the front of the engine:

... so that one needs to be scratch built because there is nothing like that in the kit or in the instructions manual. Ay, Ay, AMT!

And now please allow me to brag about the interior: this is for true very close of what it was in my mind before starting painting. I could have done better with the storage shelf and the speakers on it, but I'm watching the time as well... Please enjoy the following pics:










And that was for now!
Thanks for watching!

Gabriel
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Posted: Sunday, February 10, 2019 - 06:23 PM UTC
Bummer about the contaminated paint.

Killer job on the undercarriage. Your choice of various black tones really paid of.
AussieReg
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 01:24 AM UTC
Wow Gabriel, what a mixed bag in the latest update! Very sorry to see the contamination in the 2K, hopefully it cleans up quickly and easily for you.
The floor pan and chassis assembly looks amazing! As Jesper said, the use of several shades and gloss levels of black really paid off there, and the metallics work beautifully against the black base.
The interior has come up very nicely as well, I love the detail on the upholstery. The stitching and panel inserts are really well done. What colour did you use for the wash? It sets off the details nicely.

Looking forward to the next instalment.

Cheers, D
Szmann
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 03:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Bummer about the contaminated paint.

Killer job on the undercarriage. Your choice of various black tones really paid of.


Thank you, Jesper! Well, being absent-minded is not a modeling perk for sure! Happily the solution seems to be quite easy.

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 03:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Wow Gabriel, what a mixed bag in the latest update! Very sorry to see the contamination in the 2K, hopefully it cleans up quickly and easily for you.

Thanks, D.! Yeah, I managed to spread myself all over the house I tried already to fix the 2k coat and it works (see the following update).

Quoted Text


The floor pan and chassis assembly looks amazing! As Jesper said, the use of several shades and gloss levels of black really paid off there, and the metallics work beautifully against the black base.

Yes, I'm glad I spent that extra-time in the attempt to make the various components distinguishable.


Quoted Text


The interior has come up very nicely as well, I love the detail on the upholstery. The stitching and panel inserts are really well done. What colour did you use for the wash? It sets off the details nicely.

Looking forward to the next instalment.

Cheers, D


The interior was my greatest bid, actually. I cannot recall if I ever did a light colored leather interior - and I think I didn't. Fortunately I found very good references.
The wash on the upholstery was done with Bourgeois LaFrance Transparent Brown - very expensive and very fine French artist's oils. I cannot find them anymore - at least not in my island. The pigment is unbelievable fine (invisible granulation) and have a superb adherence. It enriched nicely the "leather" tone, I agree, but it was too sharp and I had to "filter" the interior.
On the dash I used van Dyick Brown (the same one you have bought), just to avoid the need for another filter.

Gabriel
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 03:33 AM UTC
Gabriel,
In a sense, I'm glade that the 2K issue was caused by contamination and not a unknown reason for air bubbles. Although I didn't realize that 2K Urethane was that sensitive. One thing I've done for years on end is NOT use the traditional paint bush for mixing paints or clear coats. Looking forward to seeing how the paint body re-work came out.

The only 3 (expensive to say the least) brushes I have for dedicated use since the 1970s are for decaling. And then the only decaling solutions they're used with are the Micro system and Walther's Solvaset. Mr.Mark Setter & Sol have their own included brushes. But the brushes aren't for only one solution, they're 3 different sizes for different size decals. I just wash off the brushes in the decal water and move on. Never had a single in all the years I've decaled this way.

For mixing paints and clears for air brushing I add the thinning agent 1st, then the product 2nd. I mix it with a stainless steel rod, then I cover the tip and use the back flow method to mix what's ever still at the base of the bowl. The SS rod cleans up 1-2-3 in LC. Works perfectly every time.

I've tried cleaning brushes that I had previously cleaned with LC and more times then not, I do get some residue material on the paper towel. So until I ever find the perfect cleaning method, I segregate my brushes by tasks.

Your hub caps really turned out perfectly in scale. Well worth your time and effort. They're all the same and perfectly even.

The Chassis and tub really looks exceptional now joined together. Your weathering and variation of tones really plays out quite well. Still, I love the effect you achieved on the exhaust system most of all.

The engine compartment looks pretty realistic to me, as you did an excellent job replicating it. The rubber hose that's missing if I can remember that far back is for the PCV valve.

Love the overall interior that you achieved with those washes. The radio did bring back some fond memories. Back in the mid 60s when we started to drive and cruise, all the radios were just AM, no FM as yet. Here in the NY Metro area, we only used the 1st 3 buttons: 660, 770,& 1010 as they were the only 3 Rock n Roll stations we had back then. Sorry guys for the flash back

As for your windshield experiment, what I see is a thinner, tinted glass. So I'd say you achieved your goal in spades.


Joel
Szmann
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 03:45 AM UTC
UPDATE: More on 2k

As said in my previous updates, I have registered for the first time a run. It was my poor application technique, no doubt. 48 hours later, that run transformed itself in a glass bead, impossible to remove without damaging the surrounding. The picture isn't that clear, but you'll make it out:


Now, to removing the contamination. I chose to do first the hood, because I was more worried about it. Here the contaminant was in the main coat, unlike the body where it is in the superficial 2K coat (the second one).
When well cured, 2K is very resilient at the surface. The only grit that manage to cut thru it is P220 (with my methods that is). Once the surface is broken, one can use the "usual suspects": Tamiya sanding sponges 1000 - 2000 - 3000 ...
And here I am, after 220 - 3000:

From there on, the modeler has two choices: go thru the polishing way - as probably Joel will do - with finishing compounds, or go to the troublesome way of applying another 2K diluted a little more than "standard recipe". I will chose, naturally, the second way: why not to beg for trouble if I can? The reason is different though: however good a "polished" finish will look, it will never match a "perfect" wet application.

To be continued...

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 05:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
In a sense, I'm glade that the 2K issue was caused by contamination and not a unknown reason for air bubbles. Although I didn't realize that 2K Urethane was that sensitive. One thing I've done for years on end is NOT use the traditional paint bush for mixing paints or clear coats. Looking forward to seeing how the paint body re-work came out.

Joel, we're sharing the happiness here! I am also glad it was my lack of attention and not some inherent "unknown" issues of 2K. That would have been certainly a party pooper!


Quoted Text


The only 3 (expensive to say the least) brushes I have for dedicated use since the 1070s is for decaling. And then the only decaling solutions they're used with are the Micro system and Walther's Solvaset. Mr.Mark Setter & Sol have their own included brushes. But the brushes aren't for only one solution, they're 3 different sizes for different size decals. I just wash of the brushes in the decal water and move on. Never had a single in all the years I've decaled this way.

For mixing paints and clears for air brushing I add the thinning agent 1st, then the product 2nd. I mix it with a stainless steel rod, then I cover the tip and use the back flow method to mix what's ever still at the base of the bowl. The SS rod cleans up 1-2-3 in LC. Works perfectly every time.

I've tried cleaning brushes that I had previously cleaned with LC and more times then not, I do get some residue material on the paper towel. So until I ever find the perfect cleaning method, I segregate my brushes by tasks.


Your example is to be followed, not mine!
I have "dedicated brushes" for oil washes and fine painting, even a few "mixer brushes".
My method is the opposite way: I add first the paint, then I add gradually thinner until I reach desired consistency, keeping stirring. Now: I have a couple of mixing paddles from Tamiya that work brilliantly and they are easy to clean, but I always end up by finishing the mix with a brush because I find more easy to check the paint viscosity with the "tissue test" using a brush. My mixing brushes are also dedicated brushes, but sometimes I mistake them. I clean the brushes in the same time with the mixing cup and the stripped AB in my ultrasound cleaner and the result is good. This time I must have forgotten because the hairs were contaminated with clear. Coincidentally, I've just seen a fellow youtuber using disposable mixing brushes and I think I will add a couple hundreds to my next Amazon order.


Quoted Text


Your hub caps really turned out perfectly in scale. Well worth your time and effort. They're all the same and perfectly even.

I agree that they look even, but they appear to me too heavily weathered. Some fine tuning is required there. I just hope I'm not gonna put myself in trouble yet again (like I don't like it )


Quoted Text


The Chassis and tub really looks exceptional now joined together. Your weathering and variation of tones really plays out quite well. Still, I love the effect you achieved on the exhaust system most of all.

I am (finally!) content with the looks. I guess you're comparing the finishing on the pipes with the finishing on the gas tank - Well, the gas tank is a little in falsetto but not that much to dislocate your retina - I've learn my lesson there as well.


Quoted Text


The engine compartment looks pretty realistic to me, as you did an excellent job replicating it. The rubber hose that missing if I can remember that far back is for the PCV valve.

Thanks for the precious information again. I'll try and find some Tamiya brake line from my Ducati - I'm not sure there is enough length left over. Yes, I'll try in the engine compartment the "cat strategy" and hide the poorly detailed firewall under a litter of cables Let's see how I'm gonna manage that, and if!


Quoted Text


Love the overall interior that you achieved with those washes.

I think this will be my "moment of glory" in this build... or I am only super-excited right now. I'm pretty sure next month I'll find a thousand faults when I'm going to go again over the pictures


Quoted Text


The radio did bring back some fond memories. Back in the mid 60s when we started to drive and cruise, all the radios were just AM, no FM as yet. Here in the NY Metro area, we only used the 1st 3 buttons: 660, 770,& 1010 as they were the only 3 Rock n Roll stations we had back then. Sorry guys for the flash back

Clash of cultures: I know I siphoned out now and then contemptuous remarks about the American Pop Culture, but if if I could chose my time and place, I would have been definitely the US in the sixties and seventies, with the liberty hanging free in the air and with the boom of rock-and-roll. I am incurable addicted to Led Zeppelin, Mammas and Pappas and alikes! Imagine I grew up in '80s in a Communist Country and I had friends picked up and sobered up in the Local Militia cellar for having in their possession an LP with Madonna! Fortunately we were a small town where anybody knew anybody and they got away with "only" slightly bruised faces and a brand new shiny haircut People were going to jail and were sentenced ten years hard labor for listening "The Voice of Free Europe". We all did, but a few were unlucky


Quoted Text


As for your windshield experiment, what I see is a thinner, tinted glass. So I'd say you achieved your goal in spades.

Yes, I will keep the "alien blood" for further use. The experiment is not complete yet: I want to see if a second bath will enhance the look even more (or the opposite).

Gabriel
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 06:30 AM UTC
Gabriel my Friend,

Our clash of cultures really struck home just how lucky we here in the states are. Back in the 70's the culture, especially the youth culture was changing so fast it was hard to keep up. But generally we could speak our minds, dress the way we wanted to without fear, and lessen to any type of music we wanted to. That's something we've always taken for granted. Your words really drove home the point that not everyone enjoys those freedoms, and just how lucky we really are.

I'm really glade that you've found a country that grants you all those freedoms. And I sense that you appreciate them so much more then a lot of people here, especially my son's generation that takes all of this for granted.

Once again I need to get off my soapbox.

Joel
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 06:40 AM UTC
Gabriel
I completely forgot to post my comment on the hood as I was to busy on my soapbox.

I'm looking at the hood, and I'm a little confused as to the white area which I'm assuming is the bubble and just photographed that way, as there still is the base color coat, or have you sanded through it?

And yes, you're 100% correct that given the choice I'd go through the full rubbing out and polishing coats, followed by a application of wax.

Joel
Szmann
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 07:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel
I completely forgot to post my comment on the hood as I was to busy on my soapbox.

I'm looking at the hood, and I'm a little confused as to the white area which I'm assuming is the bubble and just photographed that way, as there still is the base color coat, or have you sanded through it?

And yes, you're 100% correct that given the choice I'd go through the full rubbing out and polishing coats, followed by a application of wax.

Joel


It is the bare plastic. I had to use rough sanding sponge and the spot is rather tight... hence the damage. Ready to patch it out with couple of mist coats of base color.

UPDATE on the go
Normally I had no intention of taking this picture, but I just wanted to re-assure Joel that 2K worth every last penny. The car body sanded the same aggressive way as described above, with no damage to the base coat and - more important, to the chrome inserts. Under any other clear I know these chrome edges would have been since long gone...


Gabriel
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 08:12 AM UTC
Gabriel,
Those chrome strips under my rough handling would have most certainly be long gone by now.

Joel
Szmann
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 01:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
Those chrome strips under my rough handling would have most certainly be long gone by now.

Joel


Joel It's not about somebody's rough handling, it's all about the weakness of Alclads and acrylic clear coats.

UPDATE - Sweet revenge!
Finally, my efforts paid off with a nearly impeccable finish this evening. I checked and double checked my tools for contamination, I cleaned my airbrush again and made sure to run the painting booth's fan long before I started spraying. There are still inevitable specs of dried resin on the surface, but easy to knock off with a sponge once dried:






I still have to deal with the hood but that should be easy.

... and I guess that was it (for now).

Cheers!
Gabriel

Stickframe
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 04:05 PM UTC
Hi Gabriel - quite an interesting read catching up on your progress - the body looks show room ready! It looks great - as does the rest of the build - I’m sure your client will love this!

Cheers
Nick
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 06:30 PM UTC
I'm so glad to see, you've managed to fix the clear coat without having to start all over. Awesome job my friend.
RussellE
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 10:12 PM UTC
So much going on here Gabriel, but all in all good progress!

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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 02:55 AM UTC
Gabriel,
The gloss finish is truly outstanding. Well done my friend.
Joel
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 06:11 AM UTC
Your undercarriage turned out beautiful man! Agree the rad core support is too thick, not much can be done about it tho, it's a structural part. And I've always wondered who the demented genius was who thought of pledge for Windows and canopies. All those hours wasted polishing out the slightest scratch......
Szmann
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 02:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Gabriel - quite an interesting read catching up on your progress - the body looks show room ready! It looks great - as does the rest of the build - I’m sure your client will love this!

Cheers
Nick


Thanks, Nick, for taking the time and read the blog. Yes, the owner is happy and cannot wait to put his hands on the model. I am also quite content with the way this build went so far.

Cheers!
Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 02:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm so glad to see, you've managed to fix the clear coat without having to start all over. Awesome job my friend.


Thanks, Jesper! I was quite confident actually because 2K is very resilient. I was more upset about the waste of time and 2K (quite expensive the stuff). But it seems is going to be happy ending.

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 02:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

So much going on here Gabriel, but all in all good progress!



Thanks, Russ!
Yes, it was quite an eventful build, but hopefully is reaching a good end.

Cheers!
Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 02:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
The gloss finish is truly outstanding. Well done my friend.
Joel


Thanks, Joel!
The finish is quite good, but I could use your skills for a final polish / shine

Gabriel
Szmann
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 02:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Your undercarriage turned out beautiful man! Agree the rad core support is too thick, not much can be done about it tho, it's a structural part. And I've always wondered who the demented genius was who thought of pledge for Windows and canopies. All those hours wasted polishing out the slightest scratch......


Thanks, Patrick!
It is never as easy as that In my Mack DM600 build the surface was so wavy you could go surfing on them








Cheers!
Gabriel
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